VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

georgethetech · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: 416 alternatives

Hey gang:
Any of you mega mic junkies got some ideas on this? I have a client who'd like to carry a mic even smaller and lighter than the Sennheiser 416 in his portable kit. I've been listening to a lot of mic samples from the usual websites, but I haven't found a highly compact mic as of yet. The "pencil" mics from AKG, Neuman, Oktava and others would be something to consider, but won't offer the same noise rejection as the 416. I saw that Audix is making a miniature condenser mic with interchangeable capsules, including a shotgun capsule. Anyone with any experiences?
Thanks!
If I get to demo one of these, I'll post to this thread.
On a side note, I've been testing the MicPortPro and it really is great! So handy, I keep one with my laptop at all times for testing purposes.
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

Philip Banks · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject:

MKH50 it's a fabby mic. There was one installed in a "Presentation suite" where I worked as a TV continuity announcer. I was told by one of the techies that it was more digital friendly. Like a 416 only NOT 8ft long and gives a bit MORE when MORE is needed.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetail.asp?transid=003109

Eddie Eagle · M&M Joined: 23 Apr 2008 Posts: 2393

8 foot long!!!?? Come Come now Philip! It's only 7'10" Geek

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

Agree with Philip. I've used the MKH50 on political and commercial spots as a sound recordist. If you notice the little reddish spot on the underside of a MKH-416 that's from where the MKH50 repeatedly whooped the MKH-416's butt.

The Sanken CS-1 is also fabby, as are the Schoepseseses...

If you can't carry around a 416 your pal needs to excercise more. Smile

_________________
Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too!

CarynClark · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject:

Ok, I'll admit it.... I looked under my mic for the red spot. HA!!! Gasp

_________________
Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

Jowillie · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys. I have heard reasonably good things about the MKH50. They say it is not like the 416. Very unique in its own way....but a good way.
Please let us hear if you get one to try.
_________________
Wild Willie Edwards
www.hometowntvtoday.com
http://vomictest.blogspot.com

georgethetech · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject:

I know the MKH60, primo mic, pricey, too. I will check the CS1 out at Coffey Sound, they sell it for $800, good deal for what is known to be an excellent mic. If it sounds similar to the 416 but better, I can work with that!

Thanks for the tips.
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

Frank F · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject:

George,

The questions I have to ask is: "Is there a price range requirement? What kind of recording is he/she doing? Will the mic be used with a fishpole or be held in a blimp? Will the need phantom power, or battery power? Video acquisition, VO, film. sound effects..."

I have a million questions before recommending a microphone, especially a shotgun.

The Sanken's and Schoepes have already been mentioned, but take a look at the Azden's (SGM-1X and 2X) for an inexpensive shotgun microphone. The Axden's tend to be a bit brighter, but are still robust, rich and thick sounding. The SGM-2X has good basic sound but does not provide a lot of detail, thus it would be great for VO. Azdens tend to have great bass response and are much more directional than say an Audio Technica AT835b.

For a short shotgun and only (around) $55.00 the ATR-55 is a quick battery powered shotgun designed more for home video acquisition, but can work well for VO in a pinch.

The Sony ECM-670 is a small, good quality, camera mic which has been used for pro use and for VO. Rode has the NTG-2 shotgun also.

The Sennheiser ME66 compares well with 416, but has a bit less dynamics and is a touch harsher in the upper mid's.

Personally, for audio acquisition I prefer the Schoeps, but these microphones come at a price. So if budget is not a concern... Your friend needs to make up his/her own mid by listening and testing the microphones under the type of conditions normally required.

Let me know if you need a list of great shotgun microphones and what uses might be required of the mic. You might note however, I have an aversion to using shotgun microphones for VO work.

Toodles

F2
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

Great advice from Frank.

I forgot to mention I used to own a Sennheiser K6 with the Me66 capsule. It was okay...kind of the brittle amateur 416 with bad handling-noise, but it got the job done for fixed applications.

However, with the Me64 short capsule attached, this thing was great and I used it a lot on talking heads for documentaries and some VOs. Now you're talking small and light.

The AT shotguns are good for the money too.
_________________
Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too!

Frank F · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject:

Thanks Lance.

I failed to write regarding the handling noise associated with shotgun microphones. Other items to be discussed are: self-noise, directional capabilities, frequency response, and noise rejection are some other indicators which may help narrow the candidates of shotgun microphones.

Also, if money is no object, do not forget the AKG's, RTG Akustik, or the Neumann's...

Toodles

F2
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

georgethetech · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject:

Frequency response should be similar to the 416 as to be an adequate substitute it should sound like the 416. I had an ME66 back in my beginner days of production sound and it did a fine job. Have an AT-4073a and like it for boom work. Handling noise hopefully won't be an issue since it will be sitting on a desk in a shock mount. Perhaps I should have mentioned that this is for a VO person and will be used in various hotel rooms while working from the road.
Thanks for all of your input!
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

Frank F · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject:

Try the Azden SGM-X2 (this microphone may be a bit more bassy, but for VO work on the road; the rejection is nice. The X2 is approx. 14.5 inches long though).

If money is no issue -- a Neumann or Schoeps cannot be beat. Then again - I would not use either of these microphones for VO. But, that is your choice, not mine.

For VO on the road with a very tiny pocketbook; the ATR-55 may not have the same freq. response, but is a great alternative for only (approximately) $55.00. It is battery powered, about 9" long, rugged, and very lightweight for a VO artist's road kit.

Toodles

F2
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

Ed Gambill · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject:

George

When you mentioned AKG et al, were you thinking about Cardioid? If so you are right the polar pattern is much more open and has less rejection ability.

On the other hand a Hyper Cardiod will offer a tighter pattern and therefore less ambient noise.

On locations with hard wall interiors the Hyper Cardioid is usually preferred over any line gradient mic. The saving grace for the 416 or any other shot gun is the close working distance when use for VO.

I am a dealer for Peluso Mics and John has a penciled with hyper capsules. http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/CEMC6.html I have not used one yet but have read several good reports. They are very favorably priced as well.

NPR did a report on John and his microphone line. On it they played a short bit of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir recorded with Peluso mics. I am fairly sure they use the pencil. I belive the omni has a freq response of 19kz to 25 Khz not sure about the hyper cap.

I know most favor the Schopes I have use the AKG line. There must be a dealer in you area that keeps Peluso on hand try one of those.
_________________
Esse quam videri "To be rather than to seem"
www.SaVoa.org

No. 07000 Member AES

Yoda117 · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject:

georgethetech · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:34 am Post subject:

I think we are getting off the topic of "a mic even smaller and lighter than the Sennheiser 416", but I like the NTG-3 as a bargain sub (but not any smaller).
Here is the Audix mic I mentioned in the original thread:
http://www.audixusa.com/docs/products/M1280.shtml
Nifty, huh? The response looks like it could be useful with the shotgun capsule as a sub for the 416...
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder