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VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
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PJHawke Contributore Level V
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 160 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:07 pm Post subject: USB interface and processor speed |
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I'm not up-to-speed on digital recording...
If I opt for a USB interface like an AudioPre or MBox, how fast does the computer's processor have to be? Since the interface takes the place of the sound card, how much is the puter actually doing during the take? Or is that just a factor in postproduction when you're tweaking the recording?
I'm just trying to figure out what I absolutely need to buy first. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Pat |
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brianforrester Backstage Pass
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 492 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hey PJ,
Speaking specifically about ProToos and Mbox... the computer is still doing all of the recording and processing of information, the mbox is simply acting as a fancy sound card (with really good mic pre's). If you're using any plugins during the recording phase then obviously it will require more cpu and RAM power. In essence, I wimpy computer will give you more problems than a beast!
Here's an example for you... if when I'm recording, I have any active network connections open, antivirus software running, or other cpu intensive programs on the go, I WILL get buffer errors. Not always, but innnevitably when I'm in the middle of the perfect take that I've been struggling over for 10-minutes! Oh yeah, I'm running a Toshiba A70 laptop, 3.2 gig cpu, 1 gig RAM and 80 gig external HD (it's not the ideal solution for my setup, but it does the trick).
Ultimately, I would recommend getting the biggest and baddest machine that you can afford! That doesn't mean the biggest and baddest machine on the market! However, that being said, before you do anything related to hardware purchases for support of Pro Tools and Mbox I would suggest taking a look at the digidesign DUC
For windows, go here...
http://duc.digidesign.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB32&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7
For mac, go here...
http://duc.digidesign.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=MPMAC
The duc can be a bit daunting and overwhelming at times, but there are some pretty good threads related to the best machines for efficient operation of PT (ignore the pissing contests between PC and Mac enthusiests!! I believe that the operation of PT is dependant upon the user and which operating system you are most comfortable with, each one has its pros and cons).
Additionally, I would suggest taking a look at the digi site itself...
Go to www.digidesign.com, under products select "pro tools LE and m-powered systems", then select "software" and choose "compitability." From there it will allow you to look at known issues with certain chipset and other pieces of hardware, related specifically to both your operating system and mbox hardware...
My last piece of advice is this... if you have the luxury of dedicating a computer to your recording suite (not a reality for myself) then do it... the more crap you add to your computer the more adverse affects it will have on PT.
Hope that helps and doesn't confuse the matter.
Cheers, _________________ Brian Forrester Voice Overs
www.brianforrester.com
brian@brianforrester.com
778.668.5715 |
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kgenus Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 889 Location: Greater NYC Area
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Imagine a river with water flowing at a constant rate. To increase the amount of water, you must widen the river. You can not make it go "faster" per se. That's how computers function ... when you have so much water (data) that the river (bus) can not hold it, it overflows (buffer overflow). When you're specking out computers, you're looking for parts that will allow the maximum amount of water, or data, that you'll need for your application or use.
That being said, for "writing and reading audio streams" it's not the CPU, but the bus that needs to be able to handle the capacity ... in this case it's USB, which hits the computers internal bus, then goes to the hard drive. SCSI and Firewire use to be the "external" bussing solution of choice, now it's USB 2.0, which is faster than FW. Some might disagree, but Mackie Digital 8 Busses use to run on a (now) lowly Pentium 66.
In terms of audio applications, if you're planning on tracking with plugins active, some do and some don't, then you need to make sure your CPU has enough cycles to process without extensive latency.
Now, if you plan on mixing and producing, then obviously you'll need to ensure your computer can handle the total number of data streams coming in and has the ability to process those data streams during playback.
I didn't mention RAM but it's the same thing, more ram is more bandwidth in which your application functions. These are pretty much the basics of computing and digital recording .... AND the reason you hear people saying get the biggest thing you can afford.
Kevin _________________ Genus |
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PJHawke Contributore Level V
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 160 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thanx Brian, Kevin...I'm so glad I found this place; even the books I've read that are only a year or so old seem outdated now that I'm reading stuff from all of you folks....
Brian, based on what you said, I think I'm a long way from getting an Mbox/PT setup...between just those elements and the system required to run it, that's backburner wishlist stuff for now...thank you for keeping me from sinking big bucks on something I wont be able to use for a long while!
Kevin...so if the system bus is the real grail with these USB jobbies, what are some hard numbers I should look for? I'm still trying to find the bus speed in my laptop, I imagine its unimpressive (PIII 450MHz regular USB), my desktop is definitely too primitive...for awhile I guess my home recording will be just demo/practice/audition, M-Audio has a good mid-end interface/ pre-amp for a good price and there's shareware to practice with for now... if I can upgrade what I've got enough to at least audition with I can save pennies and practice until I can pop for the production grade setup. Thanks again........................PJ |
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donrandall Guest
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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If you are just looking for something to record and play to gain experience, learn and practice - why not get a $40 mic (there are actually some acceptable cheap mics for that purpose), an inexpensive mixer, headphones and a cassette player? Why go through all the expense involved in trying to get good results from a computer that appears to be not suitable for the purpose?
If you already have headphones and a cassette deck, you're half way there. |
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kgenus Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 889 Location: Greater NYC Area
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: |
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PJHawke wrote: | I'm still trying to find the bus speed in my laptop, I imagine its unimpressive (PIII 450MHz regular USB) |
Small correction here ... PIII 450 is actually the CPU Processor designation, which "uses the computer's bus" to communicate with the rest of the components. A PIII 450 will work if it has a secondary 7200rpm hard drive. As Don suggested, go cheap. I still use my $35 digital pocket recorder which I bought specifically to get quick recordings of friends and family during my honeymoon. _________________ Genus |
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brianforrester Backstage Pass
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 492 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:21 am Post subject: |
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PJ,
I certainly didn't mean to scare you off, but it's all about setting up the best system for you at the time! A $35 mic with a tape recorder isn't a bad way to go if you're just looking to get some practice mic time and feedback from others. I elected to go for the mini home studio setup, because that's my preference and I thoroughly enjoy messing around with hardware, software, and cables!
Take it slow and progress your way through the stages. As you get more comfortable then begin to upgrade, but the most important thing is to do things that make senes for you both professionally and financially, and financially is always a the factor that tends to take centre stage! Do what you can reasonably afford at this time that suits your current needs.
All the best. _________________ Brian Forrester Voice Overs
www.brianforrester.com
brian@brianforrester.com
778.668.5715 |
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Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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kgenus wrote: | [ A PIII 450 will work if it has a secondary 7200rpm hard drive. As Don suggested, go cheap. |
Since by "practice" I meant not only practice in mic-speaking but also with computer recording and voxfile tweaking, I'd really like to buy whatever will get my 'puter recording. MusiciansFriend is selling an MXL990 condensor mic with shockmount for $60; I dunno nuttin' 'bout mics but that's well below list price and the customer reviews of the mic were mostly favorable...they also offer an M-Audio pre-amp/interface similar to an Mbox with phantom juice for $150 (also well-reviewed) and I can get the fast external drive for about $125...toss in about 30 bux for cable and earphones and I could set up for digital for...what...around $350? And Audacity's freeware. With equipment that might be good enough to actually use when I get the money to upgrade the computer and the recordingware...just weghing options.
Going Don's route...dynamic cardioid mic and mini-mixer would run me about $80...say another 30 for a cheapie cassette recorder...I could get that much on one day's tuckpointing and a tank o'gas to boot...
Whatcha think folx? Put yourself in my boots...dirt poor, in training, no experience...would you go for the digital gusto and start playing with the sexy toys immediately or go analogue-cheap and throw yourself to the vo-bb wolves a few times before investing?
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PJHawke Contributore Level V
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 160 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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grrrrr.........I keep forgetting about that....that's me of course ^^
:oops: |
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kgenus Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 889 Location: Greater NYC Area
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Go cheap and put the rest in coaching... _________________ Genus |
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mcm Smart Kitteh
Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 2600 Location: w. MA, USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Go cheap and put the rest in coaching... |
Good advice. I would add, go cheap but with equipment that you would not have to put out to pasture before you could sell your work.
Despite my current Wanderlust (see Equipment Crossroads post), I still think my little Behringer Eurorack UB802 mixer for $49 was an excellent purchase.
A mic like the Shure SM57 is a decent one for a guy's voice and would set you back $89 new http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/d=tp?q=shure+sm57
Other than that, and a mic cable and stand, you can get free editing software to start with, e.g.
http://www.goldwave.com/release.php
and you could be in business. |
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Charlie Channel Club 300
Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 356 Location: East Palo Alto, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:31 am Post subject: |
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On the Shure side of things, the SM-57 is good for instruments. The SM-58 was recommended as being "better" for voice by one pro. That's what I started with and used for the first narration project I got paid for.
C |
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PJHawke Contributore Level V
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 160 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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So what I'm hearing is, forget about digital until I've got disposable income and I've hit the bricks and got work. Til then, just get rudimentary stuff that's pro-end enough to be usable when that happens.
I went by MacMurray's to look at stuff...the sales guy recommended going with a little Peavey 6 mixer instead of the Behringer UB802, since Behringer's totally outsourced and has no real source of customer service, but a musician friend that does a lot of studio recording and stage play swears by them...so Mary's UB802 "CutiePie"--er, that is, "EuroRack"--sounds good. The sales guy mentioned the Audix OM-2 mic as same price as the SM-58, but considered better by several customers because of a stronger midrange and warmer lows; anyone here familiar the two?
Thanks so much for the opinions, foks...you guys are great. I am SOOOO glad these threads were saved!..................PJ |
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Doc Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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PJ,
I'm using a Tapco (by Mackie) analog 6-channel mixer that works great and only cost $89. (Now, $119)
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=BLEND6
And, I'm using a Marshall MXLV69M mic, tubed with its own phantom power supply. Was $299, complete with windscreen, shock mount, cables and nice hard carrying case. (Still $299)
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=MXLV69M
Also, here's a tip! If you call them instead of just placing your order online and you have a little bit of negotiating skill, you can get an even better deal. I did. Ask for Shannon and tell her Doc Phillips from Tucson referred you. No, I do NOT receive any kickback. :wink: |
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kgenus Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 889 Location: Greater NYC Area
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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PJHawke wrote: | So what I'm hearing is, forget about digital until I've got disposable income and I've hit the bricks and got work. Til then, just get rudimentary stuff that's pro-end enough to be usable when that happens.
I went by MacMurray's to look at stuff...the sales guy recommended going with a little Peavey 6 mixer instead of the Behringer UB802, since Behringer's totally outsourced and has no real source of customer service, but a musician friend that does a lot of studio recording and stage play swears by them...so Mary's UB802 "CutiePie"--er, that is, "EuroRack"--sounds good. The sales guy mentioned the Audix OM-2 mic as same price as the SM-58, but considered better by several customers because of a stronger midrange and warmer lows; anyone here familiar the two?
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Pat,
The SM58 is the same as the SM57 except is has a pop filter on the head (the round ball). The SM57/58s are "the" U87s of dynamic mics, they're the defacto standard in all studios (for good reason) except for the new guys getting started who get pushed on the Audix marketing train. Do some research and make an educated purchase - one thing is for sure, the 57 is hands down the only mic I would take if I knew I was going to be stranded on a desert island. Also, someone mentioned it was good for males ... it's a general purpose utility mic that works on everything. The "SM7" is the large dia. dynamic version which also sounds amazing.
Kevin _________________ Genus |
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