VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Bob Bergen · CM Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 981

Wouldn't give a darn, Lee. The industry knows who is who. And who isn't.

I just come from a very different time and place. I think much of this is another byproduct of the P2P/fi core/right to work world of vo. I come from the generation where ad execes were flattered you included their spot on your demo. And, they loved hearing their spots read by others on their demos as well. No one asked permission to use a spot on a demo. It was expected and accepted.

It's a pure cultural difference. I do get it. There are different business priorities, needs, and concerns in this new generation of vo.

My original comment was posted because I honestly couldn't figure out a reason for a vo actor to trademark anything. I now understand today's generation sees value in this.

Moe Rock · Joined: 13 Dec 2014 Posts: 8 Location: Harrisburg, PA

A great example is Jonathan Tilly and his Voice Over Garden. He had a whole business, website, and branding built around Voice Over Garden. But then some guy went and trademarked a similar name and Jonathan had to revamp his entire business, change the name, change his website, and of course this time he Trademarked everything!

That's what scares me the most! I do have a "musician" using my name, so I want to make sure I protect it.

Frank F · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:30 am Post subject:

Truth is, even with a trademark owned by someone else, Jonathan should have easily been able to prove that he had first use of the name. Thus the trademark would have been recused and Jonathan would own the mark.

If you rally desire a "mark" then think about all of the ramifications and how you can prove your claim.

Mr. Tilly lost his claim because he did not how to fight or was to traumatized by the degree of work necessary to win. He was afraid.

Do not become a loser.

Frank F
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vkuehn · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:09 am Post subject:

Scott Pollak · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:10 am Post subject:

Two good links for those who are interested, relating to this discussion:

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/copyrightsandtrademarks/a/trademarkreg.htm

and

http://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/TEAS_Plus.pdf
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Moe Rock · Joined: 13 Dec 2014 Posts: 8 Location: Harrisburg, PA

Frank F, Mr Tilley DID fight hard. In court! He hired lawyers and showed that he had the name first... didn't matter. The guy with the TM won!

Frank F · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:14 am Post subject:

I just reviewed the case, briefly, very briefly. Mr. Tilly failed to establish his date of first use and how it was registered.

Internet websites do not constitute a filing or establish a first filing or date of use in commerce. His websites were not created using the name in question. He did not file for a business license or other established form of documentation to prove date of inception. I should add this: one can use the (tm) trademark or (sm) service mark symbol without having to register, yes this is legal, not advised, but legal. Had Mr. Tilly used this in any form he could have won, however he did not. Therefore, he lost.

A trademark/service mark is like a brand; you must protect it at all costs, or you lose.

FF
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Moe Rock · Joined: 13 Dec 2014 Posts: 8 Location: Harrisburg, PA

Very interesting... hmmmm

richvoice · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the discussion, Frank and Bob and Moe and everyone else. I'm glad I posted this, I've learned a LOT, both about the technicalities as well as various perceptions. A lot to think about.

In the meantime, I heard an unrelated discussion that gave me pause about what I was considering trademarking. So... still more to think about!
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Bob Bergen · CM Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 981

Rich, you and me both!!!! This was a huge eye opener! In many ways!!! B

melissa eX · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject:

Having business cards using the name would have established it.

ccpetersen · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:05 am Post subject:

Bob, you have provided a different look on the situation, one that I hadn't thought about.

But, I'm not sure that VOs today who are trademarking their names, logos, etc. are doing it because of union or non-union status/ficore, etc. Trademarking is a long-honored practice, and many of us have trademarked our company names, logos, etc. to protect them from being used by others who shouldn't be.

Porky Pig is likely trademarked (or at least copyrighted), but "Bob Bergen" may not be. Whether you want to do that or not is not necessarily because you are union and "in the trade" but is a matter of personal preference. Maybe you haven't needed to. And, if another kid showed up and started being Bob Bergen, likely the first time he or she tried to enter the union or do union work under that name, he or she would have to change to another name because YOU have it registered with the union (right?). But, if they tried to trademark it with the US Patent and Trademark Office, that would be more complex and they could win it. Or not -- it depends on how the examiners look at it and what case the petitioner puts forward.

Mind you, my company name is trademarked not for VO necessarily, but for the other productions we do. Chances are if you went into production and decided to form a company, you'd trademark its name and logo. That's as old-school as it gets.

Newer VOs, whether union or not, elect to trademark their names and logos to protect the business reputation and name they've built up. That's also as old-school as it gets. Just applied to new businesses.
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Bob Bergen · CM Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 981

Frank F · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject:

Trademarking/Service marking is not about Union or non-Union talent Bob. It is being heralded by individuals on both sides of the fence. Individuals who value what they have built and understand the lack of protections provided by a group.

The union will NOT protect an individual member when it comes to your rights. The union first protects the union, it must to survive.

I get it Bob, you do not feel you need the Service mark to protect yourself and I support your choice. I would not wish to change your mind. I am also happy that you do not wish to change mine (It is a mess anyway).

Many actors DO see the value in trademarking/service marking including, Demi Moore, the late Robin Williams, Mr. DiCapprio, the late Frank Sinatra, George Clooney, Brad Pitt, and the list goes on and on.

I stand with you and would support you under any circumstances regarding your rights to your name and style. You, personally have done so much for all talent, voice actors or not, union or not, I could not do anything less. And I appreciate your support for those who choose a different route than yours.

Here is a little something, although not definitive and not specific to trademarking/service marking, which might just help you understand BRANDING in the VO field.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/branding-mean-voiceover-field-20834.html

Choosing to have a service mark is a big responsibility. Living your BRAND can be time consuming and problematic.

Bob LIVES his reputation/brand every minute of every day, I try to do the same and each of us have a great time supporting each others choices.

Frank F
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ccpetersen · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:19 pm Post subject:

I can actually see where Bob is coming from and it's an angle I hadn't actually thought about. Thanks for giving us something to chew on there, Bob.

I also don't think this is a generational thing. It may certainly seem newfangled to people who haven't had to deal with it before, and as union actor, I can definitely see where Bob is coming from.

VO has become a business for many people who, as Frank mentions, are on both sides of the fence, and something to protect. I don't know what stance the union has on trademarking one's slogan, name, etc. It would be interesting to find out if it does. I suspect it doesn't. But that doesn't negate the need for such protection if someone needs it.
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