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Mike Harrison M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 2029 Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: Not quite a rant, per se, but a WTF |
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Okay, I'll call it a "head-spinner."
How is it that someone claiming to be both a VO and a writer can ask in a public forum how the word "often" is pronounced (with or without the T being enunciated)?
Has the dictionary been banned? _________________ Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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Frank F Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 4421 Location: Park City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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It all depends upon whether or not the person is on the left coast or the other.
Ask a Californacate person to say "important" and you will get "imnporan" from the valley girl. A Down Easter will say a big hill is a "moun-en"
And all over the country perfessionels will say "cue-pon" for "coupon". OfTen (the T really is silent) TV news folks will call next month Feb-u-ary while the weather guy calls for things to "unthaw".
Welcome to the world of college ed-a-cate-id per-fesh-in-ils telling us how to speak Engrish.
Frank F
"You can see the thunder and hear the lightening tonight...." Taken from an actual weathercast on local TV. _________________ Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com
Last edited by Frank F on Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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richvoice Been Here Awhile
Joined: 12 Aug 2008 Posts: 217 Location: Tucson, AZ
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I get your consternation - I mean, I use my dictionary a all the time, and Merriam Webster online, and each only takes me a few seconds - but I actually think that's a semi-valid question, since that particular word has multiple acceptable pronunciations.
I say "semi-valid," because I think it's valid as a general curiosity question, but I don't think it's valid in the context it was raised. I think the right answer there is, "however the client wants you to pronounce it; if you're not sure, ask." (Actually, I think the more correct answer to the OP's actual question is to say to the client, "I'm assuming you meant 'often' where you have 'offend;' do you prefer 'offen' or 'often?'")
I think that's the right answer to most questions about pronunciation, and I don't get the apparent reticence on the part of voice talent to ask questions. Maybe people think they'll look dumb if they ask questions about pronunciation? I don't know. Anyway, I'm comfortable asking. If the answer is, X, say X; if the answer is "how do you think it should be pronounced?", tell them and they'll either agree or disagree, and you have your answer either way.
I find most of the threads in that group aren't terribly helpful. _________________ Cheers,
Rich
http://www.richvoiceproductions.com
@RichMillerVO |
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vkuehn DC
Joined: 24 Apr 2013 Posts: 688 Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've always.... since childhood... been sensitive about how words are pronounced. (Not that I always got them right... after all, I did grow up "in de kuntry" on a farm... in the middle of cactus and mesquite in Texas.
And since, I have lived in a number of communities scattered over nine states.
But working on a book narration and doing some research on 'Native American' words brought me to the Algonquin/Shawnee word for a community 250 years ago that probably was the origin for Kentucky. And I lived in Kentucky for a while! So... is it KEN-tucky or is it KIN-tucky.
It has to be one of those.... right? Nay! This one totally slipped by my ears.... for all these years. Academic resources in that state set me straight: KUN-tucky.
Truth be told: If I am in my rural, slightly southern voice, I could in a conversation say the word all three ways and most people would walk away not picking up the distinction. Unfortunately, I don't have the opportunity to say Kentucky ver of-fen these days. |
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vkuehn DC
Joined: 24 Apr 2013 Posts: 688 Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry. Edit to remove a duplicate.
Maybe I could use the space to tell my favorite joke.
"Once upon a time...." OH! You've heard it before? Darn.
Last edited by vkuehn on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Harrison M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 2029 Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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This was not at all the first time I've seen on social media someone allegedly a professional pose a question to (essentially) complete strangers rather than consult tried-and-true reference material.
An example: someone I know, who is a licensed masseuse, asked on Facebook (of all places) how she could find out her license number. I can only assume she misplaced her actual license (which would theoretically have the license number on it). But, knowing her name and the state she lives in, I found the appropriate state agency's website where I was able to do a quick search and I had her license number within one minute.
Broadcasting to the world that "I've lost my license and don't know how to look up the number" or a VO and writer asking "how is this (common) word pronounced" (or, even, can it be pronounced two ways) really doesn't say much for the resourcefulness of these business people. _________________ Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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Drew King's Row
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 1118 Location: Tumbleweed Junction, The Republic of North Texas
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I've had client "kickback" because I didn't pronounce the "t" in often. So, I do as they ask, even though I know better. _________________ www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald. |
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Bruce Boardmeister
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 7964 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:07 am Post subject: |
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OK, I tell young Jedi VO warriors, how do you say "soften" as in, "Downy fabric softener"?
Maybe the poster is one of those people who responds, "What's the number??!!" when you ask them urgently to call 911.
B _________________ VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005
I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. . |
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heyguido MMD
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 Posts: 2507 Location: RDU, the Geek Capitol of the South
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Sofly, of course. _________________ Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?" |
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Lee Gordon A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 6855 Location: West Hartford, CT
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Frank F wrote: | Ask a Californacate person to say "important" and you will get "imnporan" from the valley girl. A Down Easter will say a big hill is a "moun-en"
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Just because people do it, doesn't make it correct. Your average Valley girl may very well lose a "t" or two from "important," and someone from New Bri-ain, Connecticut may lose the one from "mountain," but a professional voiceoverist with proper diction from either of those places (or anywhere else) will put them in the words in which they belong, and not stuff them into words such as "often," where they don't.
The "t" in "often" is, as my father used to say, "silent, like the "p" in bed." _________________ Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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Mike Harrison M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 2029 Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Lee Gordon wrote: | ...someone from New Bri-ain, Connecticut... |
This reminds me of what Uncle Roy Yokelson has identified as a New Jersey speech issue, where some folks just don't pronounce (what usually seems to be) mid-word double Ts: "kitten" becomes "kih-in," etc.
I've heard the same thing in commercials where a line includes a website URL and it is quite clearly spoken as "dah-com." The tips of their tongues don't touch the roof of the mouth just behind the upper teeth. Yet, if they were asked to simply say "dot," I'm sure they could.
However, the tongue does do that – albeit incorrectly – when we hear "een" instead of "ing," as in shop-een, walk-een, puke-een...
I think, in some, it's lazy speech and, in others, I wouldn't be surprised that it's done because they hear others do it.
Very bewilder-een. _________________ Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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Foog DC
Joined: 27 Oct 2013 Posts: 608 Location: Upper Canuckistan
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Mike Harrison wrote: | This was not at all the first time I've seen on social media someone allegedly a professional pose a question to (essentially) complete strangers rather than consult tried-and-true reference material |
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest it might not be such a bad thing. If reading endlessly hyperbolic copy about how our shiny new world is so awesomely fantastic zip zap zowie fast and cool and connected has taught me anything, it's that collaboration and crowdsourcing are the new norm.* I don't think there is any stigma attached to asking colleagues a question as long as
1. You are not being an idiot
2. Come to think of it, there is no number 2
Personally, I think asking about pronunciation is relatively non-idiotic. It can give you a better sense of regional variances and nuances that the dictionary just can't convey.
*that, and the fact that since I am not on FriendFaceBookSpace or LinkedIn, I am a bad person and should feel bad. _________________ Andrew Fogarasi
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Mike Harrison M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 2029 Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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I just think it's silly – and embarrassing – for someone whose livelihood is based in words to begin a group discussion when, in 30 seconds or less, a dictionary would reveal the answers.
Crowd-sourcing can work against a person in that regard. _________________ Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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ccpetersen With a Side of Awesome
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 3708 Location: In Coherent
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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There is no such thing as a stupid question, really. And, we all ask questions that we later wondered why we asked. But, I don't usually label someone as nonprofessional if they ask something about a pronunciation. Better that they ask rather than assume (and be wrong). _________________ Charter Member: Threadjackers Local 420 |
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Lee Gordon A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 6855 Location: West Hartford, CT
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:11 am Post subject: |
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ccpetersen wrote: | There is no such thing as a stupid question, really. |
This is one of those cliches that we all seem to just accept. I understand the idea behind it: you never want to dissuade someone from asking the question that might help him learn something new. But I don't buy it. There are plenty of stupid questions, a number of which are asked by stupid people.
There. I said it. And, by the way, the emperor is naked. _________________ Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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