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VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!
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jrodriguez315
A Hundred Dozen
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: New Jersey
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 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Again, not trying to pick a fight, but... |
Ok, put em up, put em up!!
Just kidding!
| dhouston67 wrote: | | I don't really look at reading spots for VTN (or any other such outfit) as "practice". These are actual jobs and should be performed as such, no matter who the talent broker is. If you can "practice" for $20 a pop, there's no reason why you can't do the same for at least a c-note. |
Good point, thanks! Of course I would prefer the C-note any day but I'd still rather pocket a $20 than nothing since that's what I get now.
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Joe Rodriguez, Bilingual Voice Actor | The Voiceover Thespian Blog |
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Joniv
Contributor IV
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Windsor, CT
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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This has turned out to be an interesting thread.
I got some more information. They are located in Exton, PA. I asked them if a voice talent couldn't do a job (or didn't want to for personal/moral reasons) would they 'require' the talent to do it anyway. Here's the response:
"All of our clients pick a first talent choice and an alternate talent choice in case either is not available for any reason."
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Joni Lambert
www.jonilambert.com |
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11076
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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I fully accept that $20 today seems like a good idea but the short term approach is exactly that. $20 is better than nothing yet I see no guarantees of the odd $20.
If you are a hobby Voice Talker then do anything that's gets a job here and there, if on the other hand you are looking to build a long term career then your approach has to be markedly different. Play the long game.
On the 28th February 1990 my first professional session earned me $130, at todays prices that's $250. Not showing off, stating a fact. it is possible to walk into work on day 1 and get paid properly. The market has evolved but people still get paid properly and most companies expect to pay pro rates for pro's. Any deals done have been sprats to catch mackerel. Do favours here and there but be sure that if someone says that when they get a good gig it's yours they deliver.
From day 1 of a voice career you have to look, act and sound like a 20 year pro'. I'm not saying bullsh*t everyone, I am advocating you adopt the business practices and behaviour of the pro'.
The majority of pay to play voice websites do not give you valuable exposure, they tar you with the same brush. Producer will not assume You must be better than the demo's they've heard so far, they will assume that everyone is as bad. Once you have the "no good" label, you try washing it off.
Brian mentioned that you shouldn't wait to get found, he's right, you do need to get out there. YOU and You alone. Tomorrow you get a call about your dream gig, you must send your latest demo you have no time to make a new one, happy about that? If the answer is no, stop marketing and make the demo to die for then start marketing.
If you consider yourself only good enough for $20 gigs now that's all you will ever be good enough for - Raise your expectations, no one else will do it for you. |
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Bill
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Now that advice is worth a heckuva lot more than $20.  |
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ronphi
Been Here Awhile
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 221
Location: Arlington, TX
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If you are a hobby Voice Talker then do anything that's gets a job here and there, if on the other hand you are looking to build a long term career then your approach has to be markedly different. Play the long game.
From day 1 of a voice career you have to look, act and sound like a 20 year pro'. |
Very well put, sir. I am a noob who has yet to record his first demo (finishing my second go round of training next week) but I have been studying the posts here for some time. The continuing thread of the "pay to play" issues has been cussed and discussed here at length. I have noted with much interest the various arguments for and against. I have to say that until this post I really didn't understand Banksey's point of view. I have been thinking that's all well and good coming from a person who has been in the business these many years, but for those of us who are just starting....well that is a horse of a different color.
I see now that you are talking about attitude. To paraphrase the old saw "If you look like a pro, sound like a pro, act like a pro and charge like a pro....you must be a pro"
I will certainly take this advice with me. In the beginning I may not get as many jobs paying proper rates but the ones I do get will be better because I will know the client considers me to be a PRO.
Thanks again Banksey.
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Ron Phillips
"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urging for investment in the radio in the 1920s. |
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jrodriguez315
A Hundred Dozen
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Banksey wrote: | | If you are a hobby Voice Talker then do anything that's gets a job here and there, if on the other hand you are looking to build a long term career then your approach has to be markedly different. Play the long game. |
Banksey,
Thank you for that enlightening post. I want to play the long game. Thank you for bringing me a step closer to that by showing me that to be a pro, I must think like a pro, and charge like one too. OK, to hell with the $20.00 spots! As my character Audrey II in Little Shop of Horrors would say "aw, cut the crap and bring on the meat!"
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Joe Rodriguez, Bilingual Voice Actor | The Voiceover Thespian Blog |
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11076
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| jrodriguez315 wrote: | | As my character Audrey II in Little Shop of Horrors would say "aw, cut the crap and bring on the meat!" |
Anyone who gets a low ball job offer cut and paste the above as it's the perfect response.  |
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Drew
King's Row
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Tumbleweed Junction, The Republic of North Texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| dhouston67 wrote: | My questions and their answers:
| Quote: |
Answers to your questions in red.
Hello,
Thank you! I'm grateful for the offer. Before returning the agreement, I would like to get some additional information, such as:
1) On average, how many spots per week (or per month) do talents receive? Some talent work 1-2 times per day, others work 1-2 times per month.
2) What payment schedule is used (per spot, weekly, monthly, etc.), and what method (PayPal, check, etc.)? Payment is sent via check usually within 30 days of the job date.
3) What promotional efforts are in place to drive additional traffic and customers to VoiceTalentNow? Our main promotional devices are sponsored links on the internet. We rank high for many search terms on Google, Yahoo, and MSN. We also have an existing client base of over 250 clients. |
Still no names (I like to know who I'm talking to, and who's talking to me), plus they're pretty light with the courtesy. (Is a "hello" or a "thank you" too much to ask?)
As noted before, their sponsored links don't seem to show up very often.
Payment is sent "usually" within 30 days of the job date? How reassuring. The contract is heavy on strict rules for the talent, but devoid of anything that insures "the company" will pay on time or even provide regular work.
I think I'll pass. |
At the most, you'll get first names. About a year ago I was 'invited' to join this outfit. I asked them to send me a copy of the contract first. After reading over document I called to ask a few questions. I got a voice mail prompt and left a message to have them call me.
Within moments I got an email saying they'd received my message and informed me that they'd rather communicate via email.
That was a RED FLAG! Anyhoo...I posed my questions. I got answers but, insisted for more clarification...like their identities? All they would provide were their first names. When I pushed, I got a terse response saying it appeared that their business objectives were not compatable with mine and wished me good luck in my future endeavors. No 'chit'!
That sparked a short email war that turned out to be a fruitless endeavor.
I mean...whether it's $20 or $200 a spot--wouldn't you like to be able to pick up the phone and talk to someone who will give you their name?
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www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald. |
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dhouston67
VO-BB Intarwebz Glossary Administrator
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: Right next door to Sandra Bullock. No, really.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Drew,
I had the same concerns but decided to skip the flamewar. Just sent them a polite thanks-but-no-thanks email.
I did tell them that the $20 per-spot rate was simply too low, but I doubt they'll care. (Whomever "they" are.)
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Great Voice. Great Choice. For Voice Talking and stuff.
http://davidhoustonvoice.com
Do That Voice! - The DHV Blog
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TheVoiceOfBob
14th Avenue
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 1411
Location: Pittsburgher in the Carolinas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I received the same thing yesterday trying to do my part in this investigation. It seems that $15.00 fee is back.
| Mainstreetprod wrote: | Below is the letter I got in response to an inquiry on 10/23:
"Send a :60 mp3 demo to info@voicetalentnow.com and fill out/return the attached.
ALL DEMO SUBMISSIONS REQUIRE A $15 APPLICATION FEE. To remit the fee, simply fill out the required fields on the order page of voicetalentnow.com – typing in “TALENT APPLICATION” fee in the script section. Click “SUBMIT” to checkout, entering in a $15 payment in the PayPal interface. The application fee is non-refundable and does not guarantee representation. Demos sent without paying application fee will not be accepted.
To be eligible for our talent pool, you must be able to:
- work as a non-union talent
- return an email within two hours
- encode mp3's at 128 kbps or better
- accept a fee of $20 per spot
- provide clean, broadcast quality audio at all times
- sign a one-year contract, committing to the above.
Submitting your demo and acknowledging the terms above does not guarantee you representation by Voice Talent Now."
Regarding the My Space site- after looking at it again, I see what David means- the guy may be listing it as his "company" even though he is just listed on the site. Or he could be the owner, it isn't clear. |
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Try to imagine a world where there is no such thing as hypothetical situations.
The Voice of Bob |
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Rognog
Flight Attendant
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 807
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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When I emailed them this morning that $20 was too low but thanks anyway, their reply was "No worries. Good luck to you."
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Tom Dheere - The "H" is Silent, but I'm Not!
www.tomdheere.com |
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dhouston67
VO-BB Intarwebz Glossary Administrator
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: Right next door to Sandra Bullock. No, really.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I swear, I keep trying to leave this VTN thing alone, but it's as if it's stuck to my shoe. (It seems to have the same aroma as, um, certain other objects with that tendency.)
My refusal:
| Quote: | Thank you for your response to my inquiries. I have decided not to pursue a listing with VTN at this time. The $20 per-spot rate is simply too low, particularly at a maximum of only two spots per day.
I thank you again for the offer, and I wish VTN best of luck in future endeavors. |
Given the brevity I've come to expect, I assumed no response was forthcoming. I was wrong. The reply came back reminding me that the $20 rate had been spelled out up front. (I really enjoyed the assumption that this had been lost on me.)
My (hopefully) final reply to them:
| Quote: | Hello,
Yes, that is correct; thank you. The reason for my withdrawal is not because the $20 rate was a surprise, but because after careful consideraton I have decided that it does not meet the standards I have set for myself and my business.
Additional factors in this decision are as follows:
* All correspondence to date with VTN has been anonymous and sorely lacking in basic courtesy; I prefer to know the names of people with whom I'm working, and basic responses such as "please" and "thank you" should be a part of any conversation.
* The contract is heavy on strict rules for the talent, but light on anything that insures the Company will pay on time, or even provide regular work.
* I have scarcely been able to locate sponsored listings for VTN on Google and MSN, using simple search terms such as "voice talent" and "voiceover". The site does not appear to be marketed competitively.
I hope that these comments will be taken as constructive criticism, as they are intended to be; I have no desire to engage in a protracted e-mail argument. Again, best wishes and continued success. |
Not that I'm confident my concerns will suddenly be addressed, but you get the idea.
EDIT: The apparently final word from VTN came back, unapologetically defending their "very successful business model". At least some politeness and a first name accompanied this reply.
I don't begrudge VTN their success; I do have a problem with their success occurring at the expense of reasonable rates for VO pros.
...BTW: If there are any VTN-listed talents lurking on this thread, I certainly hope they'll speak up to share their experiences and opinions.
_________________
Great Voice. Great Choice. For Voice Talking and stuff.
http://davidhoustonvoice.com
Do That Voice! - The DHV Blog
Last edited by dhouston67 on Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Drew
King's Row
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Tumbleweed Junction, The Republic of North Texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Yep. That's the outfit. Most smug in their view of themselves.
_________________
www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald. |
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