VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Rob Ellis]

ONE of them is the U87ai

[Frank F]

Rob,

Because of the processing it it very difficult to determine the actual quality of the mic. which means trying to pinpoint the maker of the instrument it next to impossible.

Try comparing apples to apples. Give us flat read with NO processing at all. None. Zilch, Nyet, Nothing. With those parameters met I usually can tell you whom created the product by listening to the nuances of the sound and looking at the waveform.

In this demo mic A was less processed and sounded more natural. Mic B was so processed it could be almost anything including a Mr. Microphone or U47 classic.

Preamps and microphones need to be paired properly to create a good sound. The U87ai needs -- scratch that -- requires a quality preamp to help it sound decent. The mic (ai) is not in any way, shape, or form a U87 Classic Purple Badge. Don't try to make it sound that way with EQ, compression, bias, gain, or any other trick or toy.

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Rob Ellis]

[Frank F]

Thank you Rob, the file now looks cleaner. I am going to send you my selection via PM so as not to influence anyone else guess.

As this was an .mp3 it was still limited to around 19k but I can see the Neumann's trademark filter in the file. Can anyone else?

I might note the B mic is being driven to hard (too much gain - just a tad - but too much). What do you hear?

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Rob Ellis]

Okay last chance before I pull back the curtain...

[Bob Stevens]

I will bite...

A= U87ai
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"Dialog is the painting on a canvas of silence"

[captain54]

Ok Rob. Mic #1 is the better Mic , minus the processing... game over?
_________________
Lee Kanne
www.leekanne.com

[Rob Ellis]

A=TLM 103
B=U87ai

I believe Frank is the only one who guessed it correctly.

[Bob Stevens]

Interesting...

I for one fell into the A mic sounds better and had a Neumannesque sound. Did not expect two Neumann... darn foiled again!

Think the consensus was A sounded better.

Threadjack: Frank, where is that filter fingerprint you are referring to? I looked briefly at the take with a spectrogram but didn't know what I was to be looking for.

Bob
_________________
"Dialog is the painting on a canvas of silence"

[Frank F]

Since both are Neuamans, both have the notch filter around 600 to 800 Hz and the second most notable is the one around 16 to 18k. The filtering for "ai" is specifically viewable in the later half of the spot in the high notch range.

Both mics also have the distinctive "s's"; the TLM 103 is brighter and more pronounced where the "ai" has the Neuman U87 softer sounding "s". It is very distinctive if you know what to listen and look for in a microphone's sound.

The U87 ai will NEVER be a "Classic Purple Badge" and only shines well with the right matched preamp. That said, the "ai" does have it's place to cut through the mix in commercial work better than the TLM.

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Rob Ellis]

Yeah I'm with you on that Frank. While IMO most people's voices may be initially more "flattered" by the TLM 103, the question (to me) is, does the relative "coldness" and slightly more mid-focused sound of the U87ai
work slightly better in a busy mix?

Then again, there's plenty of VOers rockin' a TLM 103 with great success.

I gotta say, it's tempting to sell the 87, keep the 103 and pocket a nice little wad of cash and call it a day. But...........

[Frank F]

The TLM 103 is a good mic for many VO projects. However this would not be my "go-to" for audio books or long-form narration.

The U87; even the "ai" is a work horse - much like the RE20 for broadcast, designed to cut through a bouncy, boomy, bass line with heavy brass, metalized guitars, the thump, thump, thump of hard drums, and overpowering strings. The original U87 was created for broadcast needs - not necessarily for vocals where the TLM series was created for music AND vocals reproductions. The "ai" was designed AFTER - in the style of - virtually - the classic U87. Even it's latest incarnations it will never match the original for many reasons.

Yes, many VO use the TLM successfully. Many use the U87 and it cousin the "ai" with varying success. I personally choose a mic which is designed for the type of work I am doing at the time.

A shotgun mic was not designed for close up work as an dynamic is not designed to create the subtleties of the human voice in softer passages.

Each mic has it place in the spectrum of things and there is NO industry standard microphone for the work you do. Each of us has to find the right mic/cables/pre/soundcard/computer which matches our particular voice, style, and purpose for a given project.

"Choose wisely."

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Rob Ellis]

BTW both mics were worked off-axis (above and aiming towards the chest)

The TLM 103 esp requires this or it becomes quite sibilant, but the 87 also becomes quite hard sounding if the capsule is addressed directly, at least with my voice.

But to me it's amazing how good the 103 can sound with a little mic technique.

[captain54]

while mic tests are fun, I would like to point out that these mics are a snapshot of Rob's vocal quality, articulation, etc.. A female voice, a different type of male voice on the same mics would be interesting.
_________________
Lee Kanne
www.leekanne.com

[Dayo]