VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Mike Sommer]

Tom,

Don't confuse the idea that you only have 5 seconds to impress, to that of, you need to cram 3 commercial clips in that 5 seconds.

That's not the idea.

The idea, is that the material that you do include in your demo, must be your very finest work- the best of the best.

Most agents or casting directors generally only need to hear 5 seconds to make a judgment call on a talent. If they like what they hear they will listen to the entire demo. If not, they move on. Though some will take the time to listen to whole demo, no mater what. . . or unless it really sticko bad.

Example.
When I was a program director and a Billboard Reporter, I would listen to every song I got- not the whole song just bits and pieces of it, because I would get 150 to 200 pieces of product every week. I knew what I was looking for, or I could hear when something was really fresh or different. It became very instinctive; in mere moments I knew if a song was a hit or not, and how it could be worked into the programing and I was generally right.

It's the same thing with agents and casting directors. They know what they want and they know what they need, and if someone comes along that has something new to offer, they know that too.

So the trick is, is the have the best material you can get, make the copy your own, be you, and don't stray to far from the standard professional commercial Demo Model. If you do they'll just say "what was that?"
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The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[Tom Test]

I thank all of you who have been so generous with your time and insight.

As far as the issue of the quick edits, I’m awaiting feedback from the agents I trust the most to see what they say. My understanding is that folks who listen to a ton of demos don’t need as much time to “get” what I am going after, they’re ready to move on pretty quickly. I have one good friend here in Chicago who is a well-regarded VO casting director, and he had no problem with the edits, though he had a few other criticisms.

Bottom line is that if I get more feedback from people who can actually hire me – as opposed to fellow VO talent, god bless ‘em – that says my clips are too short, then I will re-edit to include longer clips. My producer is giving me all the individual elements (many of which do have longer versions), so I can re-edit at will. In fact, I'll be able to make custom demos for each agent and every website I work with. If they are all telling me to have fewer, longer clips, that is what I will give them.

I'll keep you posted!
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Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Scott Pollak]

My impression, after reading and following this entire thread, is that you wanted other v/o talents ("God bless 'em") to HEAR your demos, but not really provide feedback unless it coincides with what you seem to have a pre-conceived notion of.

Not real sure what agents will be listening to these ("God bless 'em!") but if you go back and read your responses to pretty much every single bit of advice offered here, you'll see a pattern: "Hey, thanks..... BUT!...."

A lot of seasoned pros, in the know, who do this full time for a living, offered solid advice. I'm never really sure why someone asks for feedback when they don't really want it.

I know this response may seem a bit prickly and I'm really not looking to start something here. This is merely my observation of the pattern of this thread and the author's responses. That's all, nothing more.

Someone far wiser than I once said: "We can never learn anything when we're talking."
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[Philip Banks]

I did suggest that this part of the VO-BB ought to be renamed the "Seeking Approval" section but no one approved.

To be fair to Tom all egos get a good massage here from the listen to how great my demo is posters to those who (like me) truly lack humility and are really saying "in my exalted opinion".

A great idea for anyone to get their career going in 2011 is to stop hanging out with other VOs, unless they're friends, and certainly NEVER ask another VO what he or she thinks as the capacity for rational, intelligent thought eludes most of us.

.......Think on!

[Tom Test]

Guys, I am really very sorry that I have offended you. I’m upset about it. I’ve been doing my best to keep my ego out of the equation from the time I set foot in the studio to lay down tracks. But what you are seeing as my ego run amok, or arrogance perhaps, is not how I see it.

Let me first say that what I was expecting in this forum was that I’d get feedback on which clips work and which don’t, which ones are strongest and should go up front, comments about the music choices, etc. – and I HAVE gotten that – some of which certainly wasn’t praise, and haven’t rejected ANY of those comments! They have been helpful. I do acknowledge though that I haven’t specifically thanked people for that particular feedback in this thread, except in a PM to one contributor. I should have been more precise in my thanks.

The main bone of contention has been the issue of short clips and quick edits. Scott, did you see where I personally *agreed* with that feedback? I am saying though, that I want to hear more from the people who listen to tons of these each week who can hire me, to either confirm or refute the feedback I’m getting here. My idea that what talent prefers to hear is not always quite the same as what casting directors prefer to hear shouldn’t be controversial. I think that my being able to say “what I think is less important than what the folks who can hire me think” is actually an example of me setting my ego aside – which is sadly ironic since I’ve been coming across as being full of ego.

By the way, I spent some time last night at Innovative Artists’ website. They are the leading VO agency in the Midwest http://www.iachicago.com/ia_men_mult.htm . I listened to seven male :60 VO demos. Four of them had 10 clips, one had 11, and one had 13 clips. Mine currently has 13 or 14. One of them had the “gimmicky” edits of one partial sentence flowing into another, and this talent is a heavy hitter.

You are hearing as me rejecting the advice I’m getting here, and attributing it to my ego – correct? What I think is happening here is that I have put very much faith – quite possibly too much – in the judgment of my producer, over the unanimous feedback here about the quick edits. If the feedback I get from the talent agents I’ve been working with for more than a decade agrees with my fellow talent here, I promise you I WILL eat a huge heaping helping of crow. I'm looking for a bib right now, in fact.

Hang in there with me!
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Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Scott Pollak]

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate your well-worded response. Let us know what other folks have to say about it.

Oh, and if you haven't listened to the demos of the biggest hitters in the biz, the ones you'll find over on voicebank.net, go give 'em a listen. I think you'll find most of the agency demos of those guys and gals landing all the national work are more in line with the recommendations you've been hearing here.

Best wishes.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[Mike Sommer]

Sometimes we just know when something is right, or wrong. Though much of what I hear on these demos "I think I like" - I'm not sure, because there is not enough information to make an informed decision. Each scene needs to come to its logical conclusion.

Like I said, when stuff like this comes up, one has to wonder what are they hiding, what are they over compensating for, why did they do it like this? Not that you're hiding anything, it's just comes to mind.

Mr Pollak is a wizard with the edit block. I've heard him again and again take a turd of a demo and weave it into gold - without the original source material -- thank you very much.

If I were you Tom, I would hand over all my commercials to Scott and let him to do the Voodoo that he do best. I believe he does charge for this service. So, MAKE CONTACT.

If nothing else you will gain another perspective, and one that I (so far) have not disagreed with.
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[Diane Maggipinto]

after reading this thread, i listened to the first draft. (i know--backwards!)
i agree with comments about length of clips and will add that it all sounds ... squished. so keep on keepin' on. sometimes less is more in listening, editing, etc. perhaps stepping back from it will give new perspective.

aside: tom, were you the mvo to my fvo for time warner business class? i did a whole series of those radio ads a couple of summers ago ...
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sitting at #8, though not as present as I'd like to be. Hello!

www.d3voiceworks.com

[Tom Test]

Hello again,

It’s been quite a while since I asked for feedback on the rough draft of my new Commercial VO demo. I feel I was being a bit rude because I never posted the end results. I did get much benefit from the feedback I got about which clips were the strongest and which to leave off, and I feel obliged to those who took the time to give me their input. So here it is…

First, this is the primary demo I am using. It has 12 cuts in 1:02. This is the demo I have on my website www.tomtest.com, and is the demo I intend to use to attract new representation across the US (now that I have ISDN capability).

Tom Test Demo

However, I had so much extra material that I am making custom demos for all the talent agents who represent me (I have 6 of them now in 3 states). And it turns out that one of my custom demos ended up being only 8 clips in 60 seconds. So for those of you who felt my demo was simply too much, too fast, you may prefer this version instead.

Tom Test Alt Demo

I thank all of you who were so generous with your time and insight. You all helped make my demo stronger than it otherwise would have been, and I have definitely been seeing the results.
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Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[SilverSurfer3001]

Am I the only one in this here room who is amazed and astounded at the ginormous amounts of information and expertise that Mr Banks can pack into a post that he claims isn't mean to enlighten or inform?

Mr Banks - I. am. in. awe.
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Jody Silvers
VOSilvers.com

[whalewtchr]

Love the line

"...assuming you're any good."

Tom I would say 4 x 15 is a good reflection of your talent and abilities...it's not who, but how. Show me four styles of Tom that I can take to the bank.
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jonahcummings

[Tom Test]

What really matters ins't what I want, it's what the individual market I am trying to enter wants. Jonah, if the Atlanta market really wants 4 clips in :60, that is what I will give them. In Chicago, that format isn't what this market wants. If you go to the websites of the top VO agency in the midwest, you'll find most of the demos are quick-cut types. I expect this is also true of LA and NYC. I don't know yet about what other markets want, but I'll find out soon enough.

But you bring up a greater point, which is choosing the strategy of having variations on only 2-3 types of reads, or showing the wide range of reads the talent is highly competitive at (so that they can be considered for more gigs). I know of very credible people who champion EITHER strategy. (Not at the same time, of course - one way or the other!).

Left to my own devices, when I submit a demo to, say, a referral I have in the Denver market, I'll send her my demo with 12 clips on it. Maybe it will show her a read or two that is not well represented on her current talent roster. But if she tells me that she wants a demo with fewer clips that are longer, I'm more than happy to oblige.
_________________
Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Mike Sommer]

Don't worry about trying to be the man for all seasons. You will never please everyone, and if you try you will fail- or come up really short.

The Alt demo seem to be nicely paced, though I might change out the Michigan ad for something less regional, and really up in energy- for more contrast. I can hear you doing a Macy's ad.
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[Tom Test]

[Mike Sommer]

You're trying to fill a quota, when you should be simply trying to display the very best of your best work..
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.