VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[Spacegypsy]

Right now I have an overseas client in Namibia (of all places) who is not paying.... phone calls are expensive.... ah well.

Here's a situation I'm pretty annoyed about. Through Voice 123 I auditioned for a job which was not ready for production yet. Podcasting thing. When I emailed the potential client a couple of months later, he wrote back saying he was glad I called because they were about to go into production soon.

I had a look to see if they had an example of their work online, and Lo! and behold, the guy had used MY demo without my permission or compensation online.

So, I called him, and in the hopes that this meant I was in the running for the job, just said that I was flattered he had used my demo. He did indeed say that I was in the running. Next thing, he posts on Voice 123 again for more talents. So I called him up and said that I had noticed his second Voice123 posting, and was I still also being considered.

He told me to submit another audition! Pretty strange since he already thinks I'm good enough to go on his website, though unpaid and unasked.

I did tell Voice123 about the situation, (because any other demos from talent could also be used the same way) but they haven't got back to me as yet.

Any ideas as to what would be appropriate action? I'm thinking I wouldn't want to work for this guy anyway, and I would like compensation

[Philip Banks]

Sadly, I suspect that there is nothing you can do about this without spending a great deal of money. An email to this man reminding him that audio supplied by you was for audition purposes only and he has no rights to use, reproduce or exploit your voice without prior written consent which will be given upon receipt of proper payment. If he has no intention of paying your audio should be removed from his site immediately or face legal action. At present he is guilty of copyright theft as detailed in US and international law.

Don't be nice as with enough audition material from you and other he can put together a full production at no cost. send a copy of your email to voice123 and make sure he is able to see that they have been told.

[mikemckenzie]

Gypsy, my friend. I agree hole-hartedly with the Banksmeister. Right now, don't look at this as the money you lost. Look at this as an opportunity to demonstrate to the rest of the honest working world that you are a class act. Don't spend any more money on trying to get any money out of this theif. Just let it go. The bitterness will gnaw at you. You've got some talent, pal. Don't let the weakness in the system overshadow your optimism. Go out, buy you another box of generic brand macaroni and cheese, and dream about the day when you can get agency representation and that way they can handle your billing and collecting. It's happened to every darn one of us, pal. So, we're with you. Keep your chin up.

[Spacegypsy]

Thanks Banksey and Mike for your support, much appreciated.

Voice123 said it may well be a misunderstanding, and I appreciate their
efforts and also their position of in-the-middle on this. My point is, that
ultimately, even if the guy is interested in using me, until I found his
website I had no idea he was using my demo (without permission or payment) as an example of what his company is capable of. And if this is an example of what this company is capable of, well, I can't think right now that I want to work with him. If this is the way he treats VOs, then it does not augur well.

Phil, thanks for bolstering my sense of what's right and wrong, I was kind of thinking "Ooh, maybe it's OK and he didn't mean to do it" at the back of my mind...

On the plus side, I just landed a regular daily VO job with a different
Podcast that's already established, and it would be in conflict with this in
anycase. So Phil. - maybe that's my revenge - who was it said "Success is
the ultimate revenge" or something like that? I too, being a British
straight-up Northerner would love to have my 10 cents worth with this guy though.

Mike, thanks so much for your kind words. I do have a major agency who represents me as a freelance (Because I'm British - they don't sign us exclusively) and the problem for me is, if I ever get and then take any of the jobs from the auditions I get from them I would have to go Union, and then it's a different ballgame - I would lose all my client base I have now. I love what I do, that it's my own business, that I can say "no" if want to, if it's promoting something I ethically disagree with. (Like the Sugary Caffeinated Drink) I am in the driver's seat. I'm undecided on what to do about going Union until I land a Union job, and then I'll think about it.

Right now, I don't think one "big job" would be enough for me to give up the connections, friendships, autonomy and choice that I have right now.
And that's more important than "big bucks" to me as a lifestyle.

But "never say never" because who knows, I might just change my mind when I hear the cash register ringing that bit louder... :twisted:

Thanks to you both again for taking the time to encourage me.

[mikemckenzie]

I now better understand your dilema. However, after hearing your demo, I wouldn't sweat this one account. There's a phrase that's used here in the states, "....the cream always rises to the top." And your delivery is simply that, smooth and silky as cream. And after reading your bio.....wow, what a pedigree! I really loved the music by "The Specials," and I vaguely remember "the Colourfield." I had a short lived fascination in college with "Mod Revivial" (for a lack of better terms.)

[Spacegypsy]

Thank you Mike, you are very kind. Big Kiss.

[audio'connell]

[Andy]

Playback on the V123 site is set at 32 bits. But if you click to allow download, than the bit rate is restored to it's original form once the "client" has it. So, that explanation from them is a bit misleading. Learned this from a producer a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah, V123 should take more of an active role in getting the scum to either pull the audio or pay up. If not for them, and your $195, you wouldn't be in this fix. Don't expect them to pony up, though.

[audio'connell]

[Andy]

Yep, a fellow I talked to a couple of weeks ago...another VO...needed a voice for a project. I called him. The lousy playback issue came up. "Oh, yeah. That's why I download them. Once downloaded they play back at the bit rate they were originally encoded," said he. In my case that would be 128/44.1.

[Bruce]

Truly disturbing news about the quality of downloaded demos from V123.

It sounds like "watermarking" a demo with some incongruant SFX or music may be a necessary evil with potential clients you don't know. However, trying to find something that's not annoying but makes the track unusable at the same time is a trick. I found a cool jazz piece with a "walking" bass line that I bring up in a couple of different places in an audition piece. It seems to walk that line between distraction and fraud prevention to my ears.

I also leave out a line or two sometimes, or read all but the last line, or change phone numbers or address numbers in the hopes that it will deter them from using the material. Of course they might think I'm a dyslexic idiot too, and not hire me for that.

I send full quality demos to my agents all the time in the hope that they'll somehow monitor usage, in that they have a financial interest too. Hmmm.

Bruce

[kgenus]

Let's just agree to stop giving "The Service" extra press around here by not mentioning their name. Why get involved with any individual or service whose main focus is their bottom line. When people come to you for your services, they know you have their bottom line in mind. Let's face it, The Service has sustained itself on its paid subscribers (talent), no focus groups (to my knowledge) were ever consulted before heavily altering the system, user comments and suggestions (mine) were always "sent to developers" and never implemented and after reading the previous comments, it confirms my decision NOT to renew was the right decision.

A member from The Service intentionally and publicly apologized on VO-BB recently. That seemed wrong because it's an open admission of another failure to provide a quality service and really says three things at a minimum: 1) The Service has no development system on which to train or test new features, 2) The Service may have no revision control system to catalog and address numerous suggestions its paid subscribers have made since they're using a production system and 3) because The Service did not use subscriber's private email addresses you really can come to your own conclussions as far as motive is concerned.

You generally want people to come back for more when you begin branding a service, right? Ebay takes a percentage of profits to keep their service running; they also make improvements based on recommendations which are seriously considered.

I guess watching what we say would not be an issue if others listened… Okay, I’ll go to the timeout square now.
_________________
Genus

[Don G.]

This is a rather interesting thread, as I've just been giving some serious thought to signing up with them.

I did the free membership thing and have been getting the teaser leads for the past several weeks and it sure seems like there's enough potential activity. Of course, if 100 people audition for a gig, the odds aren't exactly in your favor, unless the client has a particular sound in mind (and you fit it). In the big picture, it's "only" $200, but if the end result is the equivalent of flushing $200 down the toilet, what's the point?

Very good to know about the download to full bandwidth issue. I had inquired about watermarking and received the aforementioned "not to worry" response.

Finally, and perhaps this is better asked in a separate thread, but since I'm here, I would ask those of you who are members:
* Have you at least recouped your membership fee with work you've won directly from the site?
* Is there a way for you to know how many talent are responding to any given request?
* Does the speed with which you respond and submit a demo directly relate to your place in order that the client receives it? (As someone here mentioned, if you're not among the first 20 or so that the client listens to, I have to believe their patience will start to wear thin and you won't even be heard.)

Any additional thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

[ReyAnthony]

[allensco]

I've been with THE SERVICE for almost a month now and no work has come my way either. I've had ONE bite...but it didn't go anywhere after the initial contact was made. I still audition though..hoping at least to get at least one or two gigs that will pay my $$ back.

Also worth noting, I have been among the first 10 to audition for a project.