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Go Union or Non-Union?
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject: Go Union or Non-Union? Reply with quote

Here's one more discussion on the topic from Backstage Magazine:


https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/union-vs-nonunion-voiceover-acting-75037/


B
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Deirdre
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a Pro-Union puff piece, but it makes the case for the value of union work.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Joining the union can clearly signal to potential businesses and peers that you’ve become a true professional.


i'm not sure how true that is. i've met plenty of union "talent" who do not strike me as "professional" at all (present company excluded) and i've developed a pretty good reputation in my little universe (as small as it might be). i get a lot of word-of-mouth business and pass some of it around to my friends.

i don't have anything against the union (or any union) per se. i've just been pounding it out here in flyover country for so long, i don't see the advantage for me.

yes, the union sets a minimum rate - that's a great guide line. some of my work pays more - some less, but it's my choice if i do it. i can count on one finger the number of times i've been stiffed by a client & lesson learned there.

i know i COULD turn my non-union work union - but having a wife with great health insurance kinda pushes the mute button on that. my advice to my three sons, "pay your taxes on time, pull money out of EVERY check for savings FIRST, before anything else AND marry a woman with a state job."

that said - if i get a call saying, "i'm going to back a tandem trailer full of cash down your driveway - but only if you're union." i would likely change my tune.
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Bob Bergen
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an interesting piece. Since the majority of vo today is non-union, fewer actors benefit from working union. I was just lucky that when I got in the majority was union. Now, it was far harder to break in then, especially animation. At the time there were only 3 networks broadcasting Saturday morning cartoons. Very few syndicated cartoons or animated features. I was told by everyone I will never break in as the odds were so far against me. I never cared much about odds and knew I could pay the bills with day/night jobs so I could commit to professional vo.. Today we have 24/7 cartoon networks, streaming, games, and every major studio has a thriving animation devision. Never have there been more opportunities for the character vo actor.

But again, I was very lucky I got in when I did. I was vested in my pension after my first 10 years and maxed out on my pension before I was 50. Session fees are kinda inconsequential as it's my residuals where I earn the most of my income and what guarantees me continued health care. And since animation is the only vo contract that is still well over 90% union, again, I'm one of the fortunate union actors and do not take that for granted.

But it doesn't benefit most pursing vo to commit to only pursue union work. Most don't see enough union opportunities to justify the commitment. Residuals today are a fraction of what they used to be. And with the majority of the work being non-union, the concept of enjoying and (or) expecting residuals are a foreign language to most vo actors. But animation will most likely stay union due to celebs and the fact it is a scale industry. I just don't see a reason to commit to 100% union unless pursuing animation.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's a very interesting perspective, bob - thanks for that! you know - and it made me think --- it's not just SAG/AFTRA, other unions are feeling the same pinch. one of my sons was interested in electrical work and while waiting to take the IBEW test, took a job with a great non-union company. 40 years ago, if you wanted to be an electrician, you joined the union. period. now, unless you want to get state/federal contracts, there are a lot of other opportunities. decent pay, 401-k, healthcare, etc. the union (at least in the peoples republic of illinois) has become more of a major political party than a workers advocate. saying that - i know there are a LOT of shady "shade-tree" electricians out there too --- so buyer beware.

it's definitely a different world.
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MBVOXX
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One can only make the decision based on weighing the benefits and liabilities as they apply to one's personal situation. Depending on such, there are justifiable reasons to "go" as well as "not to go".

Fuel for thought: every now and then a job comes along that pays out for a long period of use or on multiple media in multiple countries. It's not uncommon for spots to air for up to a year or more, or to be pulled from retirement and recycled years after the session. And it's nice to be paid when that happens.
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Kim Fuller
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Joined: 29 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny story.

I'm nonunion.

I did an 8-minute ISI (Important Safety Information) narration for a pharmaceutical video (nonbroadcast, web only) a year ago.

This year I got an email from the production company that someone out there wanted to take my narration (8 minutes), and lift it for a union project.

This triggered union fees for me. One year buyout.

Due to a conversation about Taft-Hartley (turns out it didn't apply here) I discovered I was union eligible based on some work I did back in the early 2000s.

I've been a must-join/must-pay for 22 years, and didn't even know it. Problem was, every time I'd checked the online form in the past (maybe ever 5 years or so) , it said "ineligible". This time I thought "I wonder if.." and entered my name but misspelled it. Came up eligible. Double checked with them on the phone. Yep, eligible. Someone at SAG misspelled it back in 2001 when they entered it.

Not to say I'm joining now - but it's good to know the option is there whenever I have a spare $3000. I'd love to join the union - but the time has to be right.


Last edited by Kim Fuller on Fri May 20, 2022 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bob Bergen
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related but unrelated. When COVID hit, the only acting genre that kept going was VO. Animation was never recorded from home studios. But with COVID came the necessity for animation actors to upgrade their home set-up beyond just a place to audition. Mine was upgraded within the first 10 days. Agents, studios and CDs created databases of actors spaces, mics, and sound samples. Within weeks it was business as usual and I have no desire, intention or need to ever work outside my home studio. These 2 plus years of COVID have been the best of my career as I can now avoid LA traffic allowing for more bookings during the day.

SO-about 6 months into COVID I started getting notes from actors: "Hey, is the union going to reimburse me for my home studio upgrade?" I wanted to smack these actors, as they were the only union actors who got to continue working. TV/Film did not. Broadway did not. These actors, myself included, were beyond fortunate. Yet a handful saw no gratitude in the ability to keep working. Over and over I kept telling the masses that the non-union talent out there who have been working from their home studios for years never asked to be reimbursed. Hell, who would they ask? I never asked to be reimbursed for the years I spent on pagers, reel to reel demos, mailings, etc.

I so remember joining AFTRA then SAG 40 years ago. Spending $10,000 a year in email mailings annually. This during my starving actor days. (a jar of peanut butter and a loaf of bread was food for a week!) I never fathomed asking to be reimbursed. I think this comes from the generation who wants the government to pay back their student loans. This concept of being reimbursed for a business or personal investment is very new. I think today's fortunate union talent could learn a few things from the non-union world.
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember over the years voice actors wanting to charge or get paid for all kinds of things, especially 1 or 2% bank fees and then extra fees for ISDN usage. The studios got away with murder back then, oh and charging to back up sessions on CDs and then a fee to recover the sessions! Of course now we do it in seconds on cheap terabyte drives.

Like any other business these are costs of doing business. Your fees should cover it. I remember choking on buying a $3,600 ISDN codec when I was just starting to get the occasional ISDN job, but I wasn't going to charge for it.

And I agree working from home is one of the few good thing to come out of the lockdown business. I miss the camaraderie though. Time for another VO-BB Zoom call?

Regarding paying off student loans, it's a "nice" thing to do to move things forward for our future most educated workers, but right now "nice" is something to do when we have lots of spare change in the treasury. We don't, and there are critical needs way ahead of this.

B
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Kim Fuller
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
Time for another VO-BB Zoom call?

B


Yes. Yes, it is
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Lee Gordon
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
Time for another VO-BB Zoom call?



Absolutely.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome to the full-time jammie pants world bob!
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melissa eX
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article is misleading. It promotes the myth that a union talent can ONLY do non-union jobs. It says nothing about non-jurisdictional work at all, leading union talent to turn down work that's not covered by a national union contract - which CAN be done without being in violation and without going Fi-Core

It states that union work always pays more - which is not always the case. Case in point is work such as eLearning which typically pays far more non-union than in a union session. There are also union contracts that are very poorly paid - it's not all sunshine and unicorns.

It doesn't mention non-union work that can be converted to union work

Also, the 30 day pass so you can "audition" for union jobs? Where did that come from? Anyone can audition for a union job if you have access to the audition. It's no guarantee your audition will get heard, but you can audition. What this SHOULD say is after your next job you get 30 days to do all the union jobs you can without joining and after that period for the following job you have to join.

I'm a strong supporter of the union, but in the area of VO I would not encourage anyone to join until you have to and I would also suggest those newer to the business to look for non-jurisdictional work and work that can be converted while you're non-union - so you can continue to do this work once you do join and not find yourself starting from zero. What Bob says is so true about opportunities not being what they were in the past. The internet changed everything. Residuals are great but the spots that used to pay off a mortgage are long gone.
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Kim Fuller
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Ex! So good to see you here and - cutting through the union/nonunion fog with your usual clarity.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee Gordon wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Time for another VO-BB Zoom call?



Absolutely.


I agree. HOORAH!
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