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mineral wool for window plugs, sound barriers, etc

 
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D Voice
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Joined: 26 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:34 pm    Post subject: mineral wool for window plugs, sound barriers, etc Reply with quote

Any experience with using mineral (roxul, etc) as sound barriers - as far as the difference between 1', 2', and 3', etc?
Especially as it pertains to handling low frequencies.
I know the more the better (obviously), but how much difference does each additional make?
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Jack Daniel
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Joined: 23 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a sound barrier, it's mildly helpful, but even at higher thicknesses (e.g., 4" and up), no insulation-like material will do much to block noise. As a sound treatment, it's quite good, esp when combined with dispersion (such as making panels of slightly varying thicknesses).

For blocking sound, it takes mass, and for blocking LF sound, it takes a smart combo of mass and separation from vibrating surfaces (i.e., the revered "floating room").

In my experience--and I don't mean to sound flip--the best anti-noise system I have found was moving to a quiet place. You can build your way out of a noisy environment, but it's not easy.
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George
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Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, here is an extensive resource on absorption coefficients in terms of the product, thickness, and effectiveness at various frequencies:

https://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

that will certainly help with absorbing frequencies without necessarily "sound proofing" and noise blocking. depending on your space, different thicknesses will help address different low frequencies so having that information is super helpful.

if you're looking to actually eliminate outside sound, the amount of space you have is going to determine whether or not you can build a traditional "room in a room" for that purpose. if space is too limited, do the best that you can with absorption in as quiet a space as you can, like jack recommended.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my window plug is 11" of recycled denim insulation in a 1x frame covered in a cheap cotton sheet.

it works wonders.
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D Voice
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

todd ellis wrote:
my window plug is 11" of recycled denim insulation in a 1x frame covered in a cheap cotton sheet.

it works wonders.

11"? wow. That's some deeply recessed window you've got there.
Pictures?

How does denim do with LF noise?
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote




it's a garden level room - so the ledge is 8". the frame is 2 boxes - one 8" deep and the outer, slightly bigger box is 3" deep. covered in a cheap cotton sheet.

it blocks LF pretty well ... i never hear traffic. i can even record when my neighbor is mowing his lawn ... mostly.

ps - don't judge my room. i've been busy ... and lazy.
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D Voice
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Todd! They look really nice.

I am working on something very similar - but don't have nearly as much depth.
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D Voice
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and I will have to remove them from the window daily (otherwise the AM sun will crack the windows as they're on the South-East side of the apartment), so I will end up doing them in three sections per window, rather than one.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you could put aluminum foil on your windows to reflect the heat. you'd look like a crack den, but ...
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JohnV
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D Voice wrote:
...and I will have to remove them from the window daily (otherwise the AM sun will crack the windows as they're on the South-East side of the apartment), so I will end up doing them in three sections per window, rather than one.


the sectioning may well compromise the sound-proofing capability.. any joint is a potential leak point.
One idea is having the window-plug on a heavy specialty hinge (the geometry of a many- inches-deep swing plug are.... INteresting...) so that it swings in and out of place easily and conveniently.

Here's some practical discussion about how these can work.
The Sayers forum is a massive resource with years of detailed DIY studio-builds of all scales and quality. The advice here is wonderfully brutal in following the idea of "doing things CORRECTLY is expensive and gets real results... Doing things 1/2 way can be MORE expensive after you find out you got some-to-NONE of the results you need"
I love the place.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11745
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Last edited by JohnV on Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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George
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i too love the john sayers forum. it is an absolute treasure-trove of some of the greatest minds in studio construction and it's been running for quite a long time. the search function leaves a bit to be desired but it's absolutely worth a run around the block there to find what you're looking for.
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D Voice
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnV wrote:
the sectioning may well compromise the sound-proofing capability.. any joint is a potential leak point.
One idea is having the window-plug on a heavy specialty hinge (the geometry of a many- inches-deep swing plug are.... INteresting...) so that it swings in and out of place easily and conveniently.

The Sayers forum is a massive resource with years of detailed DIY studio-builds of all scales and quality.

The sections are meant to be overlapping to help with potential leaks, but yes, that is something to keep in mind.

I like the idea of hinges, but unfortunately on one side there is only 1 cm between the window and a post covered by drywall, so the only possibility of using a hinge would to be to go upward, which would be pretty heavy.

Will check out the Sayers forum, thanks.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thought about hinging up as well ... using a hydraulic or gas spring on both sides & a magnetic catch at the bottom.

push in at the bottom - window plug opens like a DeLorean.
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