VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[Rob Ellis]

....it seems like I get the best sound out of the 416 if the mic
is about "12 away and I don;t project to the mic AND if the Gain
is at about "0" (Unity).....at higher gains, despite my acoustics, it just doesn;t sound as good. But the white noise between words becomes markedly noticeable
when I amplify in post.

An expander? Upping the output on the pre-amp, maybe?

It's so counterintuitive that 1.further away and 2. lower gain (almost too low) and 3.lower vocal volume seem to yield the best results with this mic.

I can remove most of the noise but am wondering how it might be possible to reduce that n oise or at least address it in the least "processy" way possible.

[Jason Bishop]

Hey Rob,

Like you, I too spent lots of time searching for the sweet spot for my 416.
It's very flexible depending on your environment and what you are voicing.

If you type in "MKH 416" or "Sennheiser 416" in YouTube, you'll find some videos of Jon Carter (a radio imaging guy) working it real close. I wrote him and he says he keeps the gain low, and then makes up for it later down the line. (via mic pre output, compression, etc)
Then do a search for Beau Weaver on YT and you'll find a video featuring a tour of his recording setup and he too works the 416 very close.

Then, go to VU (Voiceoveruniverse.com) and click on videos, there is a video called "Demo Shoot" featuring Bob Oakman who does concert/monster truck promos working it very close. I wrote him and he also says he keeps the input gain low and adds more down the line. Also on VU, hit the "Ask Joe" feature (Joe Cipriano) and his latest video (CBS Session) shows him working it very close also also...but he doesn't use the foam windscreen!

Other VO's who use the 416 say they keep it within 10 inches either pointing down from above at the 12 oclock position, or maybe slightly off axis either direction (1130 or 1230).

Don't know if any of that helps, but good luck!
Let me know if you learn anything valuable!

Jason B.
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[Philip Banks]

In post use EQ to rid yourself of everything below 28hz and a noise gate at 45db threshold and then you may compress as much as you like.

[JTVG]

If you're using an Avalon for a preamp, there's just a certain amount of noise that's always going to be there from my experience. There are input/output settings that its maker suggests to get the lowest noise. I believe Dan Nachtrab posted them on a recent thread a few months ago. If you're working the 416 close and have a conservatively set input and output, you shouldn't be getting much noise at all unless your recording environment is noisy. You could throw a gate on your chain for added stability.
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Joe Szymanski
http://www.joethevoiceguy.com

[Rob Ellis]

Thanks, all. Based on you responses and some input from Dan-O, it appears an
inexpensive outboard gate/expander/compressor could be the answer.

It's true that when I work it close noise isn;t a problem. But I seem to get a better sound further back and with the gain fairly low.

As we all know this mic is a fickle beast.

[Hart]

Man Rob, you said it. This mic definatlely has a learning curve.

I was just playing with this yesterday. When I first got my 416 I worked it close and had problems with sibilance especially after compressing.

So I've been trying more Philip Banks style - 15 feet over my head and 2 miles to the north.

Seriously, I recorded these yesterday with the mic at just over head level something like 20 inches away and pointed down towards my upper chest and cranked the gain on my M1 up. I was getting a little more noise than I'm used to but not bad.

Rob Thomas Spotlight.

That's processed to hell and back so let me give you just the voice:
This is the more or less raw vox file from that piece but I compressed as I recorded so it's not dry. ON EDIT: Nope, that's got the doubler on it too. I've got to run get my son but if it would help you at all I'd be happy to record a dry file and post it.

And here's one other I did yesterday - compressed and EQ'd but no MX or SFX.

If you want I'll see if I can dig up something that doesn't have any compression at all. I recorded a short zinger the other day like that but I don' t know if I kept the original file intact or not since it was just for fun.
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Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

[Eddie Eagle]

Don't you use Sound Forge Rob? There's a gate in the Effects.

[JTVG]

Man Brian, after listening, I'm almost ready to break that beast back out and have another go at the high and away positioning. Seems like everybody can make it work but me! I'm listening on a laptop but what I hear is nice. The real test though is a flat track with no sweetening.
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Joe Szymanski
http://www.joethevoiceguy.com

[Hart]

I'll take that as a compliment, Thanks Joe. And that means I owe Philip and Bruce a huge thanks for their thoughts in the last 416 thread.

Normally I keep all work parts including the dry vox file but since this stuff is just me practicing and getting my prod chops back I haven't been very diligent with it.

I feel bad for hijacking Rob's thread (sorry rob, I really didn't mean too ) . At some point I'll post some dry stuff for you to hear in a different thread and be very grateful for any thoughts you can give.
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Brian Hart Productions

[Mike Sommer]

Though I'm not a fan of the 416, most everyone I know works it very close.

Using a cleaner and or higher output preamp will help too. THe Vintech 1272 is a good combo, as is the Golden Age Pre 73, this little pony has 80dB's of gain.

If you ever get to much hiss on any mic, lower the gain to get clean audio. (If you can get clean audio into the digital domain you can boost it in your DAW as clean audio)

Compression will often boost the hiss unless you are using a fast gate.

If you have an outboard compressor you can use the make-up gain to increase your level. This is an easy cheat; and I use it for my lower output Dynamic mics.
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Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[georgethetech]

My 2 cents is I think it has a lot to do with your room, how quiet it is, and the acoustical properties. Scott Rummell was the first VO talent I worked with who did it this way. Since then I've been setting up many of my clients' 416's in the above and down position and it seems to work very well for many.
I really like the more natural sound you get from it in this manner. Sure, there are situations where working it close gets a desired result, but I think the proximity effect can often be over-bearing.
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[Chuck Davis]

While it's not a 416, my NTG-3 is a virtual clone of that mic. I've been using it in the above/down config about 8" from the mic with the foam windscreen.

No compression, eq or gateing. The pre is the modded Presonus Eureka. You do have to be careful with mouth-clicks though. I find that I barely use my NTK now.
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[Hart]

[Rob Ellis]

[Bruce]

My 416 is quite sensitive to abuse. It will get crunchy and then go splat if I run it anywhere near hot or get too loud and too close. As I've stated elsewhere here, I think it always works best when you let it come down and find your voice instead of you talking right into it. From soft and sexy to promo voice it works well. Because of it's slightly artificial sound it just doesn't work for me on highly realistic reads.

Mine's an older mic and I did have an electronic bit go bad. However it did make me sound extra rich and ballsy in the weeks just before it became a fuzz bomb.

B
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VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .