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Page Turning Read: What to do about p2p rates.

 
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Moosevoice
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:38 am    Post subject: Page Turning Read: What to do about p2p rates. Reply with quote

I have an article on voiceoverxtra regarding rates on P2P sites and what we can do to fix it.

Would love for all your lovely eyeballs to give it a glance and chime in on the conversation.
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Bob Bergen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2024 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is so much irony and humor in this article. First of all, P2Ps are there to cater to the buyer, not the actor. They always have been. Without the buyers, there are no jobs for the actors. And, there's an actor (or 1000) for every job/offer, no matter how small or "below industry standard." There is no non-union industry standard. Just a website who has suggested fair rates. Sometimes you get those, sometimes you get more than those. But again, they are not standard, they are largely accepted suggestions.

This is the same song and dance the union and union actors attempted with the non-union community 25 years ago. Almost verbatim from that article, begging this new internet generation to not give in to any P2P. But there were too many who found more value in these opportunities than the challenges of holding out for union minimums and benefits, which are indeed standards.

There is no fix for this because everyday more and more get into this business happy to take offers many here consider low ball bottom feeding rates!
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Moosevoice
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
more and more get into this business happy to take offers many here consider low ball bottom feeding rates!


And that was part of my point. Let those who suck at this take those crappy rates. The clients will 'get what they pay for' for the most part.

Yes, those sites are client-focused but that doesn't mean we have to accept those rates. More and more I see people, houses, agencies and clients referencing the GVAA rates so that's good enough for me. I guess if they're still around in 80 years we can call them the 'standard?'

I'm not trying to 'Norma Rae' this but I just think it bears repeating: don't accept sh**ty rates.

Thanks for chiming in.
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Bob Bergen
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Let those who suck at this take those crappy rates. The clients will 'get what they pay for' for the most part."

Word for word what union vo actors said about non-union vo actors 25 years ago. It was indeed true back then that the majority of non-union talent was not very good....until they were. Now union and non-union talent are indestinguishable. The clients will have plenty of good talent to choose from for these rates.


"I'm not trying to 'Norma Rae' this but I just think it bears repeating: don't accept sh**ty rates."

Said that, too. The problem is, one man's lousy rate is another man's jackpot. If you make minimum wage in your day job and you are asked to do a vo in your closet for $50, which will take you less than the hour to record and send, you just made more money per hour than you ever have! And, this is why non-union vo just grew and grew. Too many were happy to take work that didn't have union protections and benefits.

Once the non-union vo Pandora's box was open, it was inevitable that more and more will just undercut more and more. The complaints in that P2P article is just history repeating itself, except now the non-union vo community are eating their own. History shows there's no way to fight this.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is no fix for this


Sage words.

That really is the beginning and end of the topic.
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Moosevoice
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Bergen wrote:
"Let those who suck at this take those crappy rates. The clients will 'get what they pay for' for the most part."

Word for word what union vo actors said about non-union vo actors 25 years ago. It was indeed true back then that the majority of non-union talent was not very good....until they were. Now union and non-union talent are indestinguishable. The clients will have plenty of good talent to choose from for these rates.


"I'm not trying to 'Norma Rae' this but I just think it bears repeating: don't accept sh**ty rates."

Said that, too. The problem is, one man's lousy rate is another man's jackpot. If you make minimum wage in your day job and you are asked to do a vo in your closet for $50, which will take you less than the hour to record and send, you just made more money per hour than you ever have! And, this is why non-union vo just grew and grew. Too many were happy to take work that didn't have union protections and benefits.

Once the non-union vo Pandora's box was open, it was inevitable that more and more will just undercut more and more. The complaints in that P2P article is just history repeating itself, except now the non-union vo community are eating their own. History shows there's no way to fight this.


So don't advocate for higher rates.
Got it!
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Bob Bergen
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, you can advocate for higher rates. There are just too many really talented actors out there happy and willing to take less. I tried for far too long to advocate for people to work union. Too many found value in working non-union. And, too many jus didn't have the patience or mindset to insist on only pursuing union vo. It was far easier to pursue non-union. Now, between the P2P issue you brought up and AI, the non-union community are living what the union vo community went through 25 years ago. Again, you can insist on higher rates. You might get lucky.
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got into freelance voiceover in 1989; pre-internet, pre-COMPUTER (for the most part), built a studio out of whatever I could beg, borrow or scrounge and thought about the union not one time. I wasn't for it, against it or AWARE of it. SAG wasn't even on my radar. I knew about AFTRA from radio, but I didn't really think that applied to me either. I went after work. Period. The end. $25 for a local cable spot? You bet! $60 for a fully produced screaming/SFX laden car spot? Heck yeah!

What something is worth is whatever someone else will pay for it.

I built my business one client at a time, month after month, year after year. Fat years, lean years. I built relationships. To this day (knock wood) I have been stiffed by a client one time. Later I built a cadre of like-minded people around me who I could farm work out to and leave a little on the bone for me. That is still going pretty well. I've had several people who started out doing projects for me that have moved on to bigger things, and I am super-happy for them. Maybe even a little proud.

AI is here, there is no doubt. I feel for the folks trying to break into the business in 2024. I hear the logic of starting out union to protect yourself from the AI, but I think it's a bandaid. This is the beginning of the AI revolution, the point where some people still think they can come out "on top". And some can ... for a while.

Walk with me ...

I predict that after the Replica wars of the 5th Harris administration there are not only no more non-union voice actors but no human voice actors at all. Virtually all voice work is accomplished via AI and the highest paid voice actor is Randy McConaughey, Matthew McConaughey's Great, great grandson. Selling Pappy's virtual musings for 75 yuan/hour.
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Lee Gordon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Bergen wrote:
"Let those who suck at this take those crappy rates. The clients will 'get what they pay for' for the most part."


Exactly. There will always be clients who are willing to spend only five dollars, so let them go to Fiverr and get a VO that's worth five dollars. There will also always be clients who understand that to get a quality product, they need to spend more, and they will.

It's like anything that people pay for. If all you need is a car, any old car, you can get a 2007 Ford Focus for under a grand. And the fact that someone will sell you one at that price does not in any way devalue a late model Mercedes Benz, for which you would have to pay considerably more. There will always be someone who wants the Mercedes and be willing to pay the fair market price. In both cases, the low end and the high end are apples and oranges.
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