VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

vox1 · Contributor IV Joined: 14 Nov 2004 Posts: 126

Hi there, i normally quote narrations on an hourly rate but have a lengthy
project which the client wants me to provide a "per-word" rate for...It is
a language course where a word is read, followed by a brief definition or
example of its use.

There are multiple scripts but page count isn't really relevant since they're
not formatted in standard 12 point double spaced/1" margin, fashion.

I rarely do the 'word count' thing but this is a condition of the deal and i
need some reference.. I will be recording but not creating discrete files for
each line - just supplying the rough edited raw track for each script...

So...supposing there's 10 scripts...with an average of 2000 "words" each...
ANY idea how to calculate on this basis? This is non-broadcast audio
presumably for CD-ROM or CBT.

Thanks for any clues...!

MikeE
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Dan-O · The Gates of Troy Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 1636

I ran into this a little while ago. If you have an old script that you know how long it took you to create, take a look at the word count and divide what you charged by the number of words. Also, include a minimum word count/rate per project. (What if they only sent you 10 words? At .50 a word you'd get 5 bucks.)

Spacegypsy · Guest

Are they asking for rate per word along with its definition, or per word within the word AND its definition?

It's not clear to me.....

You might give them a rate per word, thinking it is per word you actually speak, and it might turn out to mean to them, the rate for each word AND description.

Rick Gordon · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

I deal with this "what do I charge" problem frequently with our CV members and there are basic solutions but invariably there are criteria to consider and calculate. Keep in mind that everyone has the right to charge what they wish or in some cases what they can get away with but there are industry standards that we like to live up to.

Here's a few scenarios:
Up to a 10 minute narration, recorded dry, no music, sfx or fancy production techniques. Just recorded, edited and normalized with your standard EQ application if you use any.....$400. That's for the talent. Next you should add on your studio rate. Everything can vary depending on your client so this suggestion would be for a first time, probably one time client. Commercials are a whole other topic and widely vary per application and market and duration etc etc.

We favor pricing by the word. Here's the formula I use. Narration boils down to roughly 150 - 160 wpm (words per minute). So for 2,000 words here is what I do: 2000/150wpm = 13.3 minutes of finished production. 13.3 minutes will take you 3-4 times that amount of time to edit and produce so let's call it one hour. So I would personally charge $500. including studio time and I'll also offer free adjustments to any mistakes I have made or a different inflection the client may want on a sentence or a few words. I would also give him 2-3 free corrections because it often happens that once the script is heard changes have to be made. I want him to return and be totally happy with his production.

Short answer on "by the word" pricing.
Narrations (dry read) Rick Gordon
Word Count Fee (one file) Fee (multiple files)
1-2000 .30 .35
2000-4000 .25 .30
4000-10,000 .20 .25
10,000-40,000 .15 .20
40,000 + .10 .15

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Rick
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vox1 · Contributor IV Joined: 14 Nov 2004 Posts: 126

First thanks for the thoughts and replies on this thus far! Much appreciated.

I have also heard from a fellow V.O. on the matter who suggested a flat 50 bucks per page counter-proposal to simplify the whole deal.

I still have to figure up exactly how many pages, but again, this material's being sent single-spaced, and i discovered, not 12 point but "11" point Arial font. (gee, could they add any other odd variables? Wait, of course they could ; )

Still, if it's, say a total of ten to twelve scripts, varying from 3 to 6 pages eachsingle-space, at 50 bucks a page, i'm thinking my ROI in time might be reasonably compensated at such a rate considering the quantity as long as i don't overdo time spent in rough-editing the thing.
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Saying something since 1970-
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Rick Gordon · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject:

Not a bad plan unless he is shopping. If the script can be delivered in WORD just go to Tools/Word Count and you will quickly be able to see where the pricing per word would figure. Per page is old school, too many variables.

With a total word count you can simply divide by 150 and then you will get total minutes then divide by 60 mins and you will get total hours of finished production. Then multiply total hours by 3 and you will get a really close estimate of how much time this will take you to record and edit as well.

Sound like a really nice project........good for you...congrats Smile

Good Luck,
Rick Gordon
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Deirdre · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject:

Per page should be more than $50 single spaced!
Dear God in Heaven.

I have gotten pretty adept at re-blocking text so I can make it fit the 12-point type, double-spaced model, if only for the sake of figuring cost---but with the word/definition model you'd almost have to give it a test read to find out how long a page takes you to read.

We've said here before--and Rick reminds above-- that editing takes 3-4 times as much time as recording; it's a good standard to remember.
And Rick's dandy per-word breakdown ---that's worth keeping in your notes.
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Christopher French · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject:

I'm putting Mr. Gordon's handy dandy quote sheet in my logbook.

Chris
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vox1 · Contributor IV Joined: 14 Nov 2004 Posts: 126

Totally agree DB, and others; per-page is a far too nebulous way to quote a
gig, which is why i, over 30 years, can count only a few rare instances where
a client insisted for whatever reason on such a method.

That said, I do also routinely reblock text into a double-spaced 1" margins
format for quotes. Having done so for this job's twelve 'scripts,' the
'grand total' of "pages" amounts to around 150. I also know the ratio of
edit-time hours to session hours formula should obviously be factored in.

Here's what makes this unique. While many such projects are
narrative continuity, this is akin to a simple condensed dictionary;
i.e.,
rendering separate lines of copy that in some cases are only 2 or 3
words.

For example:
Line 10: "Cat" - I took my "CAT" for a walk"
(half-space)
Line 11: "Cats" -My sister has three CATS and two dogs."

As such, total copy amount on some pages will have many sentences of
less than a half-column in length, which skews the estimate process a bit.

I will sit down and follow through with Rick's wpm formula (Thanks Rick!
Great system and much appreciated!) and see where things come out.

I have had agents propose audio book rates in the 4K ballpark
for about the same body of copy....Not saying it's great (since it
included my rough tracking)...just something that struck me in
reflecting on this.

As for this situation, while i appreciate the gig, it sucks
when an agent, whom i must presume is aware of the industry
standard double-spaced "Page format" may be deliberately advising
a client to format the text differently, AFTER i've tentatively
agreed to look at revised terms on a "Per-Page" basis

THere are unfortunately some snakes in the grassy knolls of the online
talent 'middlemen.' game.

(Unfortunately when they're halfway around the world from
ya, it can be a bit more difficult to negotiate -and/or throttle 'em ; ).

I mainly don't want to blow the thing off over the rate at this stage
so i guess i'm kinda trying to validate keeping it-even at what may be a
very'discounted' rate for him.

(Another thing to be wary of in working with some "take it or leave it'
rate" online casting venues; you don't know whatTHEY're marking up
and charging the client for your tracks.

Buyer(talent) Beware; A traditional agent works for YOU and takes a
commission...be it 15/85, 20/80 ratio, etc.

It's all too easy to find situations where the exact opposite occurs.
Fools Rush In. (something that can also be unfortunately forgotten even
by long-time pros in the haste of accepting a tempting offer without
careful forethought and questioning the right details up-front!

Live Long and Prosper -Wisely; )
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Mikey ... Vox-Versatiliti

Saying something since 1970-
something

anthonyVO · 14th Avenue Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 1470 Location: NYC

dhouston67 · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject:

Old-thread resurrection time.

Offered an audiobook job. 240 pages. Rate offered? "$20 to $25 per hour".

Egad, but that's low. (And I haven't even confirmed that they mean TOTAL hours as opposed to finished read.) I may have to take it, however, to break this work dry spell.
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mcm · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject:

Argh, it sure is low. If you take it, it would be wise to set a project minimum and maximum.

240 pages, at 300 words per page (probably a bit on the high side re: word count) = 72,000 words, at say 170 wpm = 423 minutes = 7 hours, x $25/hour = $175.

Would you have to edit it too? Then let's say 7 hours x 5 to record and edit = $875.

Could be worse.

dhouston67 · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject:

Yep, I had ballparked the total anywhere between $800 and $1K. I'll know soon whether they intend to include editing time in their budget.
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Deirdre · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject:

Boy-- in my experience it's normal to anticipate 11 pages per hour, recording time.
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dhouston67 · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject:

Who you callin' "boy"? Wink

Yup, once I did the math the figure looked even lower...
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