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VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!
Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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 Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
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If one is able to thrive on competing with others then the mindset of "look over your shoulder is fine", For those who missed the point of my earlier posting, if all you are able to do is worry, sneer and back bite then there needs to be a change (a) in the market or (b) in the mindset.
The key to success for most VO-BBers is a healthy dose of self belief. Not to be confused with arrogance. |
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marko
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Some good points here. I guess my take is, if this guy wasn't talented-which he isn't that bad-I wouldn't feel a bit 'slighted'? This cat obviously knows better and if he chooses to slit his own throat, there's nothing any of us can do about it.
Like many of us, I've turned in to a bit of a grizzled, jaded person whenever the "dollar for a holler" trolls rear their ugly heads. I actually had a bad experience with a client from voice123 (imagine that!). The client actually said, "Mark, I really like your voice but I have another guy who's voice isn't nearly as nice as yours but is willing to work for 4 hours a week for $100, and I simply CANNOT pass that up!"
The original quote I gave him for this weekly gig was many times over that, and I went on to tactfully explain the old adage of "you get what you pay for" really holds true with voice talent. I don't blame the client at all, but I'd love to hear how things are going with his Big Lots voice talent. |
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Charlie Channel
Club 300
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 356
Location: East Palo Alto, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Frank F wrote: | For me, there is no competition. I am different, I am unique, I like myself. I also wish to get paid what I need to survive in the cold, cruel, unforgiving world. How about you? Are you worth more than $25.00 a shot? I am... I am worth a LOT more. I also charge accordingly.
Frank F |
Frank, you make the point I agree with, 100%!
Anthony, you're on point, too. I've been working this field for 2 + years. And, I am absolutely amazed at the fantastic talent I've seen and heard. Musicians who write. Actors who engineer. And, even engineers who work as voice talent! And I can't tell you how blown away I am at hearing artists who can really impersonate entertainers.
Two weeks ago, I got hired by an art gallery to voice a commercial. Low and behold, the client had written a nice script, but didn't have a clue on the music. All of a sudden, I became an engineer and producer. I found some good royalty-free music, mastered the spot and the client was so blown away they said, "Just send us the bill. Great!"
What I've learned, so far, is that the challenge is figuring out what's on the client's mind and being centerned enough to deliver it when your finally get it. The bigger challenge is getting their attention to enable me to figure what's on their mind. That's where marketing come in, I guess.
Markting is strange and mysterious. I got one paying client who heard a demo I'd done for another potential client. The potential client had posted the demo on his website for his potential clients to select a narrator for real estate properties.
The lesson I learned is that the more exposure my voice gets, whether it's on somebody elses website, sniffing corks and drinking wine at an art gallery, or just having fun making VOG sounds, the higher the chances I'll be able to make it in this business. And, like Anthony sez, you got to try anything and everything. Something's bound to work, hopefully. And, at this moment in time, hope is just about all I got going.
Hey, it's time to send out those invoices for last month, huh?
CC |
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anthonyVO
14th Avenue
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1470
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| marko wrote: | Like many of us, I've turned in to a bit of a grizzled, jaded person whenever the "dollar for a holler" trolls rear their ugly heads. I actually had a bad experience with a client from voice123 (imagine that!). The client actually said, "Mark, I really like your voice but I have another guy who's voice isn't nearly as nice as yours but is willing to work for 4 hours a week for $100, and I simply CANNOT pass that up!"
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Understood. And good for you for not lowering yourself to that!
I guess like you, I'm not only tired of the lowballers (which is why I don't audition electronically anymore), but I'm tired of hearing about it. But the point was made that this is a form of "water cooler" gathering so it's expected to come up - it just seems that THAT topic comes up for frequently than proactive threads.
If someone is losing jobs online to lowballers, then they need to consider creating their own opportunities. For example: I know this one guy who established a relationship with the sales department of the local spanish radio station (number one in NYC overall in the morning by the way). Sales departments are always eager to speak to potential buyers. He knew that the weekly buys were too costly for smaller local businesses, so he pooled the money from these businesses. So he got, let's say, several $2500 to $5000 weekly buys at a discount from the station. Then he turned around and sold "highlights" to supermarkets (i.e., this week at so-and-so supermarket the price of meat is at a low blah-dollars, etc.). The supermarket wasn't commited to a full buy and can now advertise on the biggest station in the area at affordable rates.
The guy is a millionaire now and is semi-retired with a large home here and another one in the caribbean. His voice is very offbeat, and the effects are cheesy reverb/delay effects, but that became known as the voice of weekly supermarket specials - so he created his own niche and capitalized on it.
Just an example of thinking outside the box (the box being the PC  )
There's also the 60-second club spot - "what's happening this weekend in your town" example.
It doesn't lessen the effects of the bottom-feeders on honest professional voice-over talent, but it motivates you to look into another area or create one.
Prosperity and Happiness to all.
PEACE.
-Anthony |
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Doc
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm... I have a thought on this...
Did you stop to think that maybe, just maybe, this guy has an ulterior motive? Ya know - the ol' bait & switch.
It's like, $20 a holler - that's right, $20 a holler". Then, you submit your script for custom demo, he returns the custom demo with other terms, which may include such things as, the $20 fee will be honored, but to take advantage of this offer, you must agree to a minimum of 4 more V.O.'s at $200.
Hmmm.... just a thought. |
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Bailey
4 Large
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 4336
Location: Lake San Marcos... north of Connie, northwest of the Best.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Anthony... Thanks for sharing that article about your experience with eBay.
I have noticed the word "marketing" showing up throughout these forums. I guess that marketing is something that most of us feel is governed by a distinct set of rules. It appears that we may be wrong. There are marketing techniques that are permanently etched in concrete, and then there are others that are possible jumping off points... like eBay. It is a fact that all VO artists are not on equal ground.
Factors like equipment, contacts, time in the biz, and knowledge of the biz are a few of the things that separate me and Joe Cipriano and Philip Banks. I don't think that Joe or Phil would even feel a ripple in their income if I were to parade downtown San Diego, wearing a billboard, selling "voice overs" for $20 a pop. I get exposure... I make a few contacts... I make a few bucks... and I may just get a few clients who are amused enough to do repeat business. Am I going to do that every weekend... heck no! It would just be a "pet rock" type of thing to do. Just a marketing stunt.
I think there is plenty of VO work out there. I also feel that what each person expects to get out of it, monetarily, varies. Some guys (or gals) may feel that they only want work "low key" and try for about $500 to $1000 per month. Others will live and breath VO from head to toe, and will set no limits.
I think that covers whatever I had in my head about the subject. I'm sure other opinions will vary... and that's a good thing. Time to "run the gauntlet".
(Don't steal my billboard idea!)
_________________
"Bailey"
a.k.a. Jim Sutton
Retired... Every day is Saturday, except Sunday.
VO-BB Member #00044  .gif" alt="W00T" border="0" />
AOVA Graduate 02/2004 ;
"Be a Voice, not an Echo." |
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Engineer - Mmmmmmm I hear some whining in the studio monitors
Client - Oh great that must mean the voice artist has arrived. |
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Drew
King's Row
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Tumbleweed Junction, The Republic of North Texas
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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10:45 PM Last night my Phone rings.
"Hello?"
"Drew, this is Sham from ****I need your help!"
"Wassup?"
"Just learned my voice for a job just bailed out. Can you take over the job?"
"Sure. Just email me the script, I'll get to it first thing in the morning"
"Eh, the client (A blue chip company btw) is angry. Won't accept any delays. Wants the project first thing in the morning."
"Eh, um...."
"I'm really in a bind!!!!"
"How long? Finished narration that is..."
"One and a half hours."
"Shit."
"I know, I know..."
"Okay let me brew a pot of coffee and fire up the studio. This'll be a real slop edit job...you prepared to edit what I don't? "
"Yeah...absolutely"
2:10 AM I upload the file and go to bed.
5:15 AM Phone rings.
"Wah? Hello?"
"Drew! Thirteen of the 100 files are corrupted."
"Shit!"
Two more hours dealing with firewalls, zip files...wav files...MP3s....
7:30 AM The thirteen files upload.
10:00 AM. Email arrives. "Drew client very happy. More work to come!"
Providing quality serice when others won't gets you more work. But I hope not tonight.
Clients talk to other clients. Make sure they speak well of ya.
_________________
www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald. |
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kgenus
Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 889
Location: Greater NYC Area
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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All of you .... go practice.
_________________
Genus |
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone else want to walk the elitist walk? I don't go for walks in and around Portgordon any more for fear of being run over by a speedboat. |
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Bruce
Boardmeister
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 7926
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if this is a great comparison, but I'm wondering if our seeing this person offering their services for 20 bucks a pop is something like the thoughts of a high class call girl who sees a street walker on the corner. "How dare they take business away from me and so cheaply?!"
Well, they offer the same service, but with dramatically different training, style and quality. Many people will always do business with the lower priced purveyor, but the best clients, the ones who know what quality service can bring them, will always pay for the best.
Of course the quandry is for those purveyors who wonder where in the spectrum of low to high quality (and price) are they? With some training in quality service, attractive packaging, and targeted marketing, any of us can be at the top of our trade. Think it, train for it, act it, and you'll be it.
Bruce |
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Quote from Bruce: Think it, train for it, act it, and you'll be it. |
Thanks Bruce, I am already there.... Are you coming?
Frank F |
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Jeff McNeal
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| kgenus wrote: | | All of you .... go practice. |
Amen. |
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marko
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: | Many people will always do business with the lower priced purveyor, but the best clients, the ones who know what quality service can bring them, will always pay for the best.
Bruce |
Bravo, Bruce.  |
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Drew
King's Row
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Tumbleweed Junction, The Republic of North Texas
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'm glad I'm not that guy who's been taking the grilling here. Me thinks if he were to venture into our club, he probably wouldn't care to join.
Just an observation.
_________________
www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald. |
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