VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[SimondsSays]

after a couple of posts about computers over the last few weeks, I decided to toss out some genral advice etc about computers

I had started this as a reply to Chucks Hard Drive thread, but it gained a life of its own...so now it is a new post...



A hard drive (heck a computer in general) is simple and at the same time it is amazing it even does what it do...

The first hard drives were large platters that were a few feet across in these huge cases. They would spin very fast for something that large, not as fast as today's 10000 rpm drives... but consider the speed of the outside edge of a 3-1/2" platter vs the speed of the outside edge of a 3' platter. Anywho a hard disk crash was when the read write heads would actually crash on to the disk surface, and in some cases would shatter these big platters. Quite the event I am told.

Your hard drive looks much like a little phonograph inside with little read write heads on little arms that swivel back and forth less than a hairs width above the drive. The disk is covered with a highly sensitive magnetic material and the R/W heads are very sensitive in reading the minute changes in that magnetic structure.

Chucks issue could be due to physical degradation of that coating.

A power issue while the system is running, could have caused the heads to hit the disk, furrowing up some coating, and then the cascade happens. that same power issue could have fried the electronics of the drive and his data is safe.. unreadable, but safe.

Power fluctuations are really bad for hard drives. The on/off flickers are the most dangerous, well next to a direct mass voltage event like lightening or a transformer loosing it on the pole outside your house.... Those off/ons can send up to 180 volts down the line and that will pass right into your computer unless you have Battery Backup. If all you have is a surge suppressor you are not doing all you can to protect your computer. put a battery back up in front of all your expensive hardware.

After so many years of repairing computers and seeing all brands, makes
styles from the earliest 386's up to today's machines, I can tell you one sure thing..."All computers suck, start there, and what they do will never disappoint you"... ok that sounds all negative , but the reality is that eventually your computer is going to crap out. The most likely pieces to die are the moving parts and the voltage handling items. A hard drive that makes it past 3 years has severed its time in my book. Yeah sure, we all have drives that are 7 years old and still run, but we are talking about what can happen, and securing your data is critical to a continued smooth operation.

Count on the hard drive in your system dying. Even new systems sometimes are afflicted this way. There are hundreds of millions of hard drives being made every year. Some of them are going to be duds, so don't think your new system is immune. Now that you have read this, go and get a few thumb drives and a *couple* of external hard rives... a couple as one of these might be an off the shelf dud.

Find out how and be prepared for an Operating System redo. Sony and Toshiba both make great laptops, but their restore functionality can sometimes leave you with a complete redo choice in order to regain functionality. Know how you will proceed when the time comes to redo your Operating System. Be prepared for a complete mess and you will be far ahead.

Keep off site backups... if your entire world (heaven forbid) goes up in the big ball of flame those three hard rives and 6 thumb drives in your desk drawer won't be doing you any good as a pile of rubble/

Computers generate heat and therefore they have fans to help dissipate the heat. You can also think of your computer as a household air filter, ... without the filter. Do you have solid floors? Pets? Burn wood or coal? Forced hot air? Dirt road? all of these factors increase air particulate and your computer sucks them all through it. If your computer is on the floor, move it. Get it up away from the foot traffic that stirs up the dust. Learn how to blow out the fans in your system, so that the system runs cooler and the fans run slower.

If your computer is critical to your ability to generate revenue, don't let anyone use it for any reason. So many time we had to repair computers that someone had been fine with until they let their (insert idiots name here) use it to check thier Yahoo mail.. or whatever... the net result is malware that messes up their computer... and the perp doesn't even know they did it. Teenagers are THE worst on this one.. don;t listen to them, and don't let them TOUCH your computer.. .between porn and all the other FREE stuff on the net they are magnets for trouble on a computer.

Wow... there is just so much more... if you have questions ... ask...

[Rob Ellis]

As long as we're on the subject....

when you say, back up your data off site, do you mean one of those services on the internet that stores and backs up your data?

What is the advantage to that versus just using an external hard drive?

I will be investing in a backup computer/laptop most likely ...is it worth it to start making the transition to Mac at that juncture?

One of my concerns is that I will like Mac better and start wanting to use my laptop more instead of the still-functioning mainframe PC...

[SimondsSays]

[CarynClark]

Jason,

Thanks for your write up! I have a couple of ?s for you, if you don't mind. I live in FL and we get a number of those bad on/off power flickers, so I'm curious as to your thoughts on a couple of things.

1. I have a Monster surge protector (it's like a big power strip with an on/off switch), and our house also has a surge protector on it. I was going to buy one of those battery backup things a couple of years ago, but the guys at the computer store said they had seen more computers fried by those than anything else. When I told them I had the Monster strip, they said to keep that and not buy the battery back up/surge protector thing. Your thoughts?

2) I power down my computer, switch off the power strip and unplug it and my external hard drive from the wall, each night, and power it all back up in the am. I've heard it's more taxing on your computer to power it up/down each day versus leaving it on. True? The reason I don't leave the computer on is b/c if I left it on, my MBox would stay on and I hesitate to leave that on 24/7. (I could unplug or switch off everything else in the studio). I don't know of a way around that.

THANKS again for a most informative write-up!

Caryn
_________________
Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

[SimondsSays]

You're most welcome. I have certainly been on the benefit end here and other forums, so it's a giving back thing too... comes around/goes around.. .

1) Battery backups wouldn't be in use in every mission critical data situation in every major data operation in the world if they didn't do what they were designed to do.... that said I have also seen a lot of mis application. A very typical scenario is a BattBackup that has too much plugged into it. the backup units have ratings based on the load they can support and the amount of time they can support it. For our purposes, a BattBackup is designed to carry the system for a few minutes in the event of power loss, so we can safely save our work and shut down the system. They also step in to provide power during momentary blips in power delivery, which can often be more important then straight power loss support. However, if you have too much plugged into a batt backup when it flips to battery power you can fry it and the electronics. Never plug in a laser printer into a Battery backup.. unless it is rated in the 2000va range. For most of us a unit in the 500-1000 range is plenty.

b) You live in the lightening capitol of this part of the world, and per recorded specs more lightening in the greater Lakeland area than anywhere else on the planet .. ( i used to live there and in Ft Myers ) When direct hits from lightening are involved, there IS NO protection. However if you unplug everything, including the phone line when lightening is close you will eliminate ANY chance of getting hit. That said, what you do each night is the safest method of protecting the system. I used to be a "leave it on" fan. The theory is that is creates less wear on the electronic components. Every time we power up, all that metal that conducts the juice heats up just a bit and the metal expands, and when shut off it contracts. Over time this fatigues the metal and can lead to electrical issues. So by leaving it on you are theoretically lengthening the life of the systems. I was told that the navy would leave elec equipment up and warm levels to aid in a quick power up, to ward off moisture, but also to avoid the issues associated with that thermal expansion and contraction. There are untold numbers of computers running 24/7 all over, and they all have extensive battery backup/voltage regulation and generation ready to take care of issues. They also have hot swap component setups and multiple hard rives protecting data. If you choose to leave the hard ware on all the time it absolutely needs a battery backup that can carry the load. There is software that can tell the computer to shutdown if the power hasn't returned in "x" minutes. So the downside to leaving it on is increased elec bills, carbon footprint etc. However, computer hardware is so cheap today that the cost of running is not as cheap as it used to be in comparison. Also outside of a laptop, replacing many components in a computer is cheap. Laptops are also repairable but are more proprietary and more expensive to fix. I am on the fence about leaving it on to have less wear or turning off to save more money

BTW, The most likely point of entry to your house by lightening is your phone line. The ground rod outside your house acts as a pathway to enter the phone line and zap anything plugged into it. When lightening is close unplug power and phone.


Hope this clears it up .. if you need a followup, please ask. (its late and I'm tired, who knows what I left out)

[Lee Gordon]

Here's a cautionary tale about leaving a computer powered up 24/7. I have done that for a long time. Earlier this year, while sitting at the computer, I sensed something that had that "burning transformer" smell and decided to shut down the computer for the night. The next morning I pushed the power button and nothing happened. After a couple more futile attempts to fire up the computer, I hauled it off to Best Buy to let the Geek Squad have a crack at it. They determined that the problem was a fried power supply, had me pick one off the shelf, and proceeded to install it.

Here's the cautionary bit: as they disconnected the power connections from the various components inside my computer, they discovered that both the power plug and the data connection on my hard drive had partially melted and fused to their respective sockets. They were unable to unplug them without permanently damaging the hard drive. So I had to purchase a new hard drive along with my power supply. Fortunately, through a bit of heroic effort on the part of the Geek Squad (somebody had to physically hold the damaged data cable in place for the hour or two it took to transfer the contents of the old drive to the new one), I did not lose any important data.

So even if the question of power savings vs. wear & tear is still up in the air when it comes to running the computer around the clock or shutting it down when not in use, you still run the risk of overheating if you never turn the thing off (especially if you allow any dust to accumulate in the air vents).
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice

[SimondsSays]

A good subject Lee!!

Power supplys are a constant issue. Mostly because computer makers put cheap-a** units int here systems. Most any computer built in the last 5 years or so should have a 450Watt or better power supply. Many have less than that and most inexpensive computers have cheap power supplys. If you have an EMachine... well.. "take thee to the smithiee" ( what movie did I watch this weekend??) and get a replacement for $50-$80 bucks. we saw large numbers of Emachines that had power supplies that fried and took out mainboards.

Tell me Lee, was you computer on a Battery Backup?

Power supplies blow, and like in Lee's case, they can do damage on the way out. I've not seen one fuse anything... my guess is you had a computer where they use a dollop of sealant to "glue" the connectors together... when the tach went to fix your computer her screwed up the socket in the drive by yanking on it and had to hold it together to get the data transferred... It would be nearly impossible for the data cable to see the voltage needed to do the fusing ... but amazing things happen.

As lees pointed out.. .a build up of fluff may have contributed to the Power Supply frying as well.. so "keep it safe, keep it" clean. ( what movie was that???)


(my comments are based on experience and I haven't experienced everything, so I could be wrong!!)

[Lee Gordon]

[louzucaro]

A non-defective power supply shouldn't have that trouble, even if left running all the time...think about all the servers out there that are never shut off.

As has been said, good ventilation in the computer case is important to keep air moving (for cooling) and, hopefully, extract any dust in the area at the same time.

That's why I always cringe when people show me desktop machines inside a piece of furniture...they're just askin' for trouble with regard to heat.

But if a power supply is defective and heating up more than it should, well, it probably wouldn't matter if you turned the computer off, as the temperature would be lower when idle anyway since the things that really drive up the head (processor and GPU) aren't doing anything while idle (in most cases).
_________________
Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com

"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!"

[flaspots]

We took the ventilation issue very seriously when I built our new Linux server. In addition to the case exhaust fan and the chip cooling fan, each of the hard drives has a dual fan mounted from below. It's regularly 85 degrees in my office during the summer, but this thing keeps its cool. My workstation has the same setup.

It does require regular de-cat-hairing, though.

[louzucaro]

[CarynClark]

Thanks to ALL who offered thoughts on my questions. What a great discussion. THANK YOU!!!
_________________
Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave