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How Do You Pick an Agent?
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SheSpeaksCopy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: How Do You Pick an Agent? Reply with quote

I've noticed that many of the VO-BB members have agents. There are also some members who don't list an agent on their websites. I'm curious as to why some VO artists use agents and some don't.

Can anyone tell me how they decided on the agent(s) that rep. them? Confused
Are there any pitfalls to look out for before signing with someone? :evil:
My inquiring mind wants to know!

:wink:
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Dan-O
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by Dan-O on Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeff McNeal
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't pick an agent. An agent picks you. There are more voice people than talented agents, so the latter tend to be very selective with who they represent. As for who I decided to approach? Well, my first agent approached me. She was representing another voice talent that came into the picture when I was the voice of a local car dealer. I was also acting as the producer of the radio spots, so I would communicate with this agent to arrange booking times, etc. for her voice talent that I was now working with. I was doing pretty good at the time and was sort of proud that I didn't have an agent ( a goofy ego thing), but this particular agent won my trust with frank discussions and abrasive wit and I decided to go ahead and sign a deal with her just to see if it made sense.

Fifteen years and tens of thousands of dollars later, I'd have to say that yes, it was a good decision to go with her! We never formalized another agreement. We've built a longstanding relationship on trust. It was understood from the beginning that my existing accounts and business that I had established would not entitle her to a commission. But once I gain a client via my agent, all business dealings are handled by the agency, period.

Why have an agent at all? Easy. Because that's where the real money is in this business. Major market agents have the contacts and are the liason of choice for national ad agencies and production houses.

An agent or manager will aggressively pitch you to the client and get you top dollar. Agents will handle the billing, insulate the talent from flack and be the bad guy when sessions run over time or extra copy is thrown in and more money is due. In short, an agent should make your life a whole lot easier and help you make more money than you can make on your own. That is, if he or she is a good agent. You should seek out the best you can, but be patient and be prepared for rejection. If an agent signs you on the spot, I would be wary of their credentials.

Before signing anything, it should be clear that if the agent does not produce for you within a certain period of time, all bets are off and the contract is nullified. You should also be able to employ other agents outside the market. It is not uncommon for VO talent to have two or more agents working different markets representing them. For example, I have three agents working California alone. San Diego, Orange County and Los Angeles. With another who occasionally sends me an audition from San Francisco. Most L.A. or New York voice talent have agents in both markets. Which reminds me, I need to start looking for an agent who wants to represent me in New York. I'll make that my project for the new year.

I put my representation on my web site for two reasons:

1. My reps are well known and give me even more credibility with the types of clients I am hoping to attract and the latter tend to want to communicate through representation anyway.

2. Because I am proud to be represented by my various agents and manager and I know that they are better suited at fielding inquiries and booking gigs than I am.

Hope this helps.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11046
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to note that I have just written to one in the USA and advised them I will not be doing auditions for potential jobs. Nothing wrong with the agency as such, it's just that they work on the "mud sticks" casting principle. the trouble is that the same jobs go to other voice over agents who work the same way.
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Deirdre
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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Location: East Jesus, Maine

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mud sticks to whom?

Please elucidate, and No I am not trying to be "funny".
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they get enough people to audition one of them is bound to get the job. Sounds fine in theory, but it doesn't work.

Should an agent contact me and ask me to audition I always ask why the client wants me to audition for them. No answer? It's a cattle call and I won't do it. Like a salesman who asks a pre-closing question, it is worth the effort.

Customer "Does it do 50mpg?"

Salesman "Will you buy it if it does?"

Customer "No, I just thought you looked so desperate for a sale I'd waste
your time".

Salesman (thinks he's a voice over) "It's ok to do that because you may come back later and buy something else, you may recommend me to your friends, it's good practise (realises he's a car salesman) GET OUTTA HERE!!!!""

It's not so bad in the UK but I know in the USA the audition culture is at epidemic proportions. I've said this before, if it's it's for a $5,000 job I'll give it a shot but they seldom are.

An agent will argue that the client is looking for a specific voice, well that's why we make demo's.
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Jeff McNeal
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect, I wish that all VO talent would embrace Phil's attitude regarding auditions. Then guys like me who do them without hesitation would stand a chance of getting even more work then we already do. Laugh

Demos are fine, but in practice, a great many VO talent are incapable of recreating the carefully crafted sounds that they labor over for their VO demos -- at the drop of a hat. Clients want to hear how the talent sounds reading their copy, not sift through hundreds of demos. Clients want to know that the talent reading their copy isn't going to waste everyone's time during the session.

We are at the service of the client. Not the other way around. :roll:

Phil, you're a great guy and a colorful personality, but your attitude regarding auditions would be the death knell to many of the fledgling voice talents reading this site if they were to come to the conclusion that the rewards don't justify the effort.

I look upon auditions as simple workouts, and more importantly, view them as a golden opportunity to be heard by more and more clients. And the more you are heard, the better your chances of being hired. :wink:
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brianforrester
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 492
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that we're simply re-hashing a debate from about a month ago... this one always seems to raise some eyebrows, both good and bad and it's not a bad debate to be had....

However................

Like it or not, auditions are a way of life for most voice talent, be they new to the business or a seasoned pro! The difference simply lies in your need/desire to audition for certain gigs! We all must draw a line in the sand and determine what monetary remuneration is worth the time it takes to audition... for some it may be $150, for others it may be $5000, to each their own on that matter.

I'd have to say that we may not be comparing apples to apples in some cases here, if you typically do work in the ball park of $5000 and are making a living that keeps you comfy and satisfied, then by all means be choosy about what you audition for that pays below your standard take, it would be somewhat fooloish to waste your time doing otherwise; however if you are building up a reputation and typically working in the range of $250, then set that as your audition base and accept the fact that you're going to have to push more volume to live at the level of the $5000 guy/gal, and make sure that you keep your eye on the goal of pulling $5000 per gig!

That being said, and keeping in mind that I'm speaking from a North American reality, if you hope to break into a new market, your demo will get you in the door, but your audition will get you paid! I know a few really darn good producers/engineers (allbeit somewhat misguided at times) who could take 50 half-assed takes and cut them together into one heck of a good 1-minute demo. In many cases it's that same producer/engineer who's selecting talent... he/she knows darn well what can and does happen on demo reels and certainly isn't going to be the one left sitting at the console after crappy 1-hour session with the client sitting on the couch behind them because he/she selected a talent who sounded great on a reel but couldn't produce while taking direction in the booth!

For me, the only surefire way to eliminate the need to do auditions is to pack it in and start greeting customers at WalMart!!!

Therefore, I'll keep auditioning for new potential clients with the knowledge that the odds are stacked against me, at least until I can find some new and creative way to eliminate the request for them... being great still doesn't all together eliminate them and I'm certainly not there yet! At least not outside of my little world in which I'm the bestestststst! :wink:

"Opinions are like noses, everyone has one, just make sure you pick yours carefully"

Happy Holidays
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Spacegypsy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I audition millions of times a week! (Well, upwards of 20)

I love it!

And it earns me more than I ever earned in my dayjob, which I took when I first came to NYC from Blighty - I was scared about Health Insurance (coming from a land where all that is free) And it wasn't a bad dayjob by any means - Exec Asst. for the GM of a major TV Network.

I do have an agent, and quite a "big" agent at that, but he hasn't got me any work. Lots of auditions though!

The auditions I do myself, I don't have to do my hair, or even get dressed if I don't want to, and I get to play with copy, glorious copy!

The auditions my agent sends me on take at least 4 hours out of my day, all things told. And then, I get the corporate "feel" in my day, too. I don't like that much - I quit my day job to come back into VO as a lifestyle choice to get out of it, so why would I want to get into it? (Guess you know I'm a touchy-feely kind of kinesthetic person aka sensitive, though you would never know otherwise)

I don't put my agent on my website - maybe because he doesn't contribute to my livelihood thus far, but maybe he doesn't go the extra mile to talk me up because of that. I doubt he's even looked at my website though. Maybe I SHOULD put him up there, just in appreciation of the auditions he sends me for. Hmm...

Just last week I did an audition with an/THE audiobook people, (not through my agent) who I have worked with in the past. I really don't like being in a booth with corporate suppressed types on the other side of the glass. And it showed in my audition. You could say, "Oh come on, be PROFESSIONAL" - well, if sitting in that energy is professional, what can I say. I don't want it.

I love auditioning and working for small businesses, for the genuine glow they have when they are pleased with the job, - yes, it's not the BIG BUCKS, but helping develop small businesses is more of a passion for me than walking away with a huge paycheck from a world-polluting organization.

Not that I've ever HAD an offer from one, (biggest jobs $1500, one $3,000 but not $5000 - and, I hasten to add, none of my "big jobs" have ever been for one commercial, they involved long scripts and much time ) but if I turn turtle it's not like I would be in bad company.

I'm the kind of person who learns best from my own mistakes, (Aries - goes head butting walls until a fresh wall appears) and I like autonomy.
I love being in my own studio, which is why I'm always online! Even when I was a professional singer, I much preferred being in the studio to singing live, so voice over is perfect for me. (I have a new album coming out in early 2006 though, recorded in my own "studio")

I have had so many jobs which have worried me because I have woken up in the middle of a feverish dream, where I have been going over and over repetitive tasks from the job again and again - and always thought it was time to quit, or relax or something. With voice over, I have repetitive dreams of speaking lines & editing sound waves, and sound waves fill my sight before I drop off - and when I wake up, instead of worrying, I think, "Cool! I hope I figured something out subconsciously that will be of use to me today!" - that was a real epiphany for me, it never happened before.

So, what I am trying to say is, I am having fun. That is the MOST important thing to me.

I think that is what Banksey is saying too. It's not fun for him to audition for jobs less than a certain amount. For Jeff, it is fun to audition. If we're choosing VO because it is fun, then there is no template, because we all have different ways of having fun with our OWN businesses. And if it isn't fun, we can MAKE it fun! Rather than drawing lines in the sand, I see it as making sandcastles to one's taste. (Cue some bugger talking about preferring to build their life on rock rather than sand, I know! But that would be missing the point)
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Jeff McNeal
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is "fun" for me to audition (well, some are, some aren't), but the idea is to get my name out there, be heard and keep the chops up, so to speak. Besides, landing a good agent in L.A. took a lot of time, energy and effort. Getting a manager was even harder. I'm not about to blow off any auditions they throw my way. It would simply be bad business.

Sometimes it's best NOT to know how much an audition could be worth. Expecially if it winds up being for a lot more than you were anticipating.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11046
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two interesting points come out of Jeff's comments. Firstly that too many people are up for any one project and secondly, most demo's do not accurately represent the ability of most voice artists.

Four people gather in a room with coffee and croissants to listen to the auditions. 50 auditions, four people. The four in the meeting are getting paid, the 50 who made or turn up for the audition are not and only one of them has a chance of getting paid. Am I stating a case for not doing auditions? No. Just for putting in the pre-close. In so doing you discover if you are REALLY in with a chance of a job or merely allowing corporate America to waste your time and your money.

Just so you know, on average, I get asked to do 1 audition per week and honestly can't remember the last audition that resulted in any sort of job, let alone a $5,000 one.
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Deirdre
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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Location: East Jesus, Maine

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My very best jobs are a combination of won auditions and cast from-a-demo.

It's interesting to see that the won auditions are the recent arrivals to the resume.

Also-- some situations pay a fee for an audition, Banksey. Pro Comm pays for auditions, for instance, and there are AFTRA and SAG rules to cover auditions.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11046
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deirdre wrote:
Also-- some situations pay a fee for an audition, Banksey. Pro Comm pays for auditions, for instance, and there are AFTRA and SAG rules to cover auditions.


I was aware of that but thanks for saying so as I'm sure there are people reading this thread who didn't know. The last paid audition I did was in 2001.

For those unable to see the wood for the trees I feel I should point out that I am not suggesting a blanket ban on auditions. As we are in the voice over business I am trying to encourage people who may never have thought about it to look at every proposal with their business heads turned on.

If you're doing voice overs purely for fun then nothing I write applies to you with the exception of my wish that you continue having fun.
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mcm
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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Location: w. MA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spacegypsy wrote:
I'm the kind of person who learns best from my own mistakes, (Aries - goes head butting walls until a fresh wall appears) and I like autonomy.


Must be a Scorpio thing too.... :o

I like autonomy too - but lately have been thinking I would like to have a little less of it in some areas. When I get my new demos in a few weeks I will be giving more thought to this agent thing.

Anita, there does not seem to be such a thing as a straightforward, simple question with this group - ain't it grand?
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SheSpeaksCopy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely a wealth of information, Spacegypsy! I can only propose that my craving for information is why I became a writer... I love to learn.

As a Taurus person, I am true to my stars...like the finer things in life, job and relationship stability...and being professionally independent! Being financially chained to a time clock drives me insane.

I came to VO_BB and quickly found that many here work freelance and are doing very well for themselves. How inspiring! I can do this...I know people who are doing this EVERYDAY and make a comfy living at it.

Personally, the VO-BB is as vital to my VO business as a compass is to sailor. I wouldn't think of navigating the VO waters without it. Laugh
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