VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[kitstern]

This is a new area for me. I never produced these even when I worked in radio. Can someone point me to resources for producing promo demos, music, good promos to listen to, etc.?

The ones I've heard all sound like they're compressed like crazy. Are there any particular EQ settings that make them jump out like they do, or is it all compression?

Hooray, hopefully the start of a good techie discussion for all us geeks.

Thanks!

Kitzie
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[Spacegypsy]

This is something I am interested in too.

I'm playing around with compression at the moment, and find a lot of settings increase an electronic "hum" that is not there on the original.

I mostly send dry files, but recently I started doing some of my TV Promo work from home instead of in a studio. Because my compressor is not the same as the one in the studio, using the same settings as were used of in the studio does not have the same effect.

It seems like compression settings/sound vary from compressor to another? Has anyone else found that?

I'm pretty much a novice at compression, and don;t fully understand it, so any pointers to a good article on the basics would be much appreciated.

[Philip Banks]

Compression is added once in post production and a second time at the transmission stage. It is not our call as voice overs to make the decision as to how the final production sounds on-air unless we are told otherwise. If you are supplying audio from your own studio then it should be unprocessed unless you are told otherwise.

For productions we need only concern ourselves with the quality of (a) the performance and (b) the dry audio. Obviously for demos we are supplying the finished product and so it needs to have an on-air feel and that look and feel should be in keeping with the station.

I am the voice of The Horror Channel which is a Europe wide TV station and also do a great deal for CNN, needless to say the approach and the end products are ever so slightly different . Particularly with TV even when you are not in a dubbing theatre looking at the picture and reacting to them you need to sound as if you are.

I know that the techies will help with the add a little/take a little questions but don't get side tracked.

[kgenus]

The only way to learn this is through trial and error.

Finding a resource or manual that explains this process is probably easier said than done. Getting all your elements together is the simple part, the compression, eq and multiband compression is the challenge. Remember, many of these promos are created with people with silver or golden ears or they're sent out to be mastered.

It's very costly and the currency is your time. I think a even a tech head would pass on attemptnig to describe it online, Banksey.

My advice, stick to the front of the mic and leave the rest for someone else.

Kevin
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Genus

[Dave]

Hi Kitzie (and all)

This would be of interest to me as well. Although I've done my share of dry image lines...I've never produced the final product either so I'm totally in the dark.

The guys/gals that do this stuff must have digital magic in their blood! If would be great to spend a day looking over their shoulder...probably the only way to learn how :cry:

If you find out more be sure to let me/us know!

Dave
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[billelder]

There is a guy in Atlanta making a killing doing radio station promos and VO's in my home market who uses lots of compression on his finished product. Sounds great on Tv, too. I have no idea if they "decompress" the VO before they send it to the Tv Stations. I was sent a raw file of his by a producer friend when I had to fill in for this guy when he was on vacation. I never saw my version of the ad on tv so I can't compare. My feeling about EQ and compression is that a little bit goes a long way, but I have pumped it up a bit for car dealers and special effects.

[Philip Banks]

As a general rule of thumb, if you are able to hear the EQ, compression and production then you've "over egged the pudding" as we Brits say.

I managed to get hold of a finished TV trailer/promotion and all I hear is the promotion.

http://thecorporatevoice.com/warbbc2.mp3

[allensco]

As always Phillip, clean and clear. Do you use any compression or EQ?

On the sub of producing spots, I've been producing my own for about 20 years now (small town radio...gotta do some of everything). I also produced my own demos. Kevin's post about trial and error is right. You've just gotta try everything and see what works best. Bill said it well too when he said, "a little goes a long way." Personally, I compress once during the production with no EQ at all. When it hits the air, it goes through another compressor/EQ (Optimod) on the way out. Sounds great
Try some of all of it but don't over-do it.

[Philip Banks]

Needless to say the audio was a BBC TV production. During the session my voice was recording flat and then some subtle EQ was used to take the potential BOOM off my voice. As far as compression, I was told there was a mere touch as the read was fairly intimate.

When I record things here as opposed to ISDN session then it tends to be no compression and flat EQ. The only exception is for The Horror Channel when I use a preset called Crunch, rather appropriate I suppose..

[Jim Barton]

What about the rolloff option on your mic or preamp?

Many reputable audio people have recommended using the 90hz rolloff for voiceover because (a) supposedly the human voice doesn't need it, and (b) the compression used at radio and TV stations picks up on those frequencies when they squeeze the audio before it leaves the station, thus ducking it, and making the voiceover lower in volume.

I've tried this, and like any male voice person, don't like removing any of my "bottom." (Although from this Avatar, it appears that some of my bottom could stand removal.)

As far as compression here at my studio goes, it's tricky business. I use just a taste from my HHB Radius 40 preamp to control the input. Everything else you hear on the air is probably multi-band compression, which is a sorcery that has so far evaded me.

Jim

[SoundsGreat-Elaine Singer]

Okay, here's my ignorance on display for all to see - when you are talking about compression, is this done while you are recording via hardware settings or via software after the recording is done? Some day I will master this, I know I will, I know I will, I know I will...
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The Youthful Mature Voice (Emeritus)
Senectitude is not for the faint of heart.

[kitstern]

I've been listening to promo demos, and the dramatic music & sound effects also add to the feel, so maybe it's not just compression & EQ. Plus, there's a certain style to the production, so I can see what Kevin is saying about leaving it to the pros. The trouble is, where do you find pros who have time to do one of these for you and won't charge an arm & a leg for producing a demo? I know several producers at TV stations but they're so busy right now I don't think they're going to have time to help.

I'm really spoiled because I produce my own demos. It's fun for me. I just don't think I have the know-how to do these, but if I can't find someone else I'll have to give it a shot.

Time to make some phone calls. Maybe I'll find someone who isn't really busy this week.
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Enjoy life, this is not a rehearsal.

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[kgenus]

Marc Graue Recording Studios
www.FixInTheMix.com
818.953.8991

Regarding compression, different compressors produce different results and the plugins get close, but they're not there yet. If you've watched any of the classic Eastwood western films, the gunshots were compressed with UREI 1176 compressors. They're very fast solid state compressors. The infamous UREI LA-2A is an optical tube compressor which was designed to be smooth for vocals, bass, etc. These units are "the" vintage classic units on which many compressors are based. There's a bunch of other compressors but the bottom line for us is analog compressors are generally:

1. Used when recording (which is what you do)
2. Used again during tracking (which is what the producer does)
3. Used again in mastering (which is what the mastering house or the producer does)
4. Used again in broadcast.

You can begin to understand why it is important to limit the use of compression when the potential is that it may be compressed repeatedly on successive steps. I'm not saying slammed to the wall but compression based on the format and medium in which the audio will be used.

This should serve as a reminder why it is best to limit compression usage.

If you made it this far, here's some good reading:
Understanding Compressors and Compression
Tube vs. Non-Tube Compressors
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Genus

[Charlie Channel]

KG's givin' it to you staight.

When I've auditioned the demo's of many pro's, I sometimes wonder what in the world is going on. To my ears, a lot of compression makes everything louder, but flat and noisy. With the SFX, music and heavy compression, the message is lost. By that I mean the subtle inflection and tone of the voice that communicates so much more.

I've listened to demo's that sound like nothing more than noise, to my ears. Of course, many of those demo's are by pro's who may be doing very well. So, I'm assuming the noise rings a bell to those who are looking for that sound, or delivery. And, it may sell the content in the mind of some consumers.

From what I've learned about engineering using Pro Tools, there are three steps to production:

1. Tracking - vocal, music (more tracks), SFX
2. Mix down (to balance all the track content) to a track
3. Mastering (to make it sound good through various speakers and balancing things between successive mixed tracks)

Compression may be used on individual tracks. I sometimes, for example, use light compression on the VO track. Music is canned so I don't worry about that.

Note: there's limiting that may be going on. It's different from compression.

When bouncing the mix, I may use compression. You can also use effects (reverb, mic modeling, etc.)

When I master, I do (using T-racks) I use both compression and limiting.

T-racks is an relatively inexpensive mastering suite with pre-sets. I don't know what I'm doing, so that's the way I went. Limiting and soft limiting is available, too, along with the ability to control the stereo separation and eq.

I check the work using both my monitor speakers and inexpensive speakers.

Anyway, that's how I hack at it. Others may have it down a whole lot better. It's a lot of work. I'd use a pro to put a pro demo together, given a choice.

CC

[kitstern]

Charlie, thanks for the input. I didn't know what T-Racks was for, and so have never used it for mastering.

I think you & Kevin are right about using a pro to do these demos. After looking on-line at what buying a SF CD would cost and the cost of my time to put it together, it might be worth it to pay someone to do the production for me.
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Enjoy life, this is not a rehearsal.

http://www.kitziestern.com/