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Moosevoice
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 234
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject: Facebook VO Group Reply with quote

Wanted to know if anyone else has had problems with a certain Facebook VO group?
I'm about to quit it because it always comes back to being run by myopic people who don't want to learn or grow and if you do, they shush you to the 'kids' table.'
I've posted there for years and most recently I asked about marketing.
The admin responded with (paraphrasing) ,'you should go ask that at our group that's for VO newbies.'
How is a general question about 'Marketing. What are you doing? What's working for you?' a 'newbie' question?
I've been doing this since 2005 and I guess I didn't get the memo on what the official benchmark is for 'veteran.'
This isn't a one-time thing either.
Years ago I asked some of my peers in this group (or as he would call them: "The well-heeled veterans who know it all, already!") how to go about getting some feedback on a demo. Again, he hit me with the 'newbie' thing.
This isn't about ego. I always thought a Facebook group about a particular subject was there to help, to share, and to feel welcomed with a common interest as the nucleus.
Forgive me if this is a little ranty but I've reached my limit with this redactedhole.
Shame on me for going outside VO-BB for anything because I've always felt respected and my questions or input well-received.
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Bob Bergen
Flight Attendant


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 824

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure which group you are referring to as there are so many. I recently quit one as I found it going in a direction that didn't float my boat. I have seen on some pages people post responses to a question along the lines of, "Surf this page. That has been discussed numerous times." An arrogant answer. It takes a lot of balls to ask a question. And this group I quit would be considered to be a bunch of amateurs by many in the industry. There are no dumb questions. And a true pro will answer the same question over and over. I can guarantee every question comes with many others who have the same question in their head. Now, not everyone wants the same answer. That's different. I strive for a level of vo that is not for everyone. But if someone is interested, I am happy to share over and over the same info.
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Mandy Nelson
MMD


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 2786
Location: Wicked Mainah

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been asked before so if you do a search...

Devil

FB groups can be vile and, therefore, useless so don't feel the need to stick around a place that doesn't add to your life. Besides, this is the place to be.
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Eddie Eagle
M&M


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 2384

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mandy Nelson wrote:

FB groups can be vile and, therefore, useless so don't feel the need to stick around a place that doesn't add to your life. Besides, this is the place to be.


I've been fb free for over 3 years now with no regrets. I encourage everyone to quit like cigarettes. You will be glad you did.
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Eddie Eagle
Spoken Words @ the Speed of Life
www.EddieEagleVO.com
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Jack Daniel
Cinquecento


Joined: 23 Jun 2016
Posts: 530
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calling your question a "newbie question" is unwarranted and simply incorrect.

But I bet you'd get a more positive response if you offered some thoughts of your own up front, instead of just asking people to list their successful methods. A lot of those methods might have taken them a long time to figure out; putting up some "ante" might make it easier for them to share.

e.g.: "Let's talk about marketing. I'm curious what other pros are doing. For me, I've been doing X, Y, and Z. Method X has been a waste of time, but Y has led to a couple of good narration jobs, and Z has led to a couple of inquiries but no honest leads just yet. What do you think of those methods? And can you share some others you value?"

Of course, this assumes the group is worth the effort :)
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Jack Daniel
Voice Talent / Man About Town
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Bob Bergen
Flight Attendant


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 824

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take Jack Daniel for the win!!!!!!! (goes great with Maker's Mark...bet ya never heard that!) Great advice!

So, I find Facebook to be a great tool. But it also makes tools outta some people. Never take it personally. Just know that every vo page consists of 6 figure union only talent, 6 figure non union talent, the 5rs of the world, and everyone in-between. This homogenizes the industry with everyone giving advice from their perspective. People offer advice that works for them/their market/their career which may not work for others. There are many who do quite well cold calling for work. This would not work for me, as those whom I work for do not take calls, and cold calling is just amateur hour. BUT-I have been very successful reaching out on social media, including Facebook. The more corporate/studio/network execs LinkedIn is better. Just know that marketing is important. Your approach is important. What you have to market is important.

I advise all actors take marketing classes. The smart marketer markets in a way the person they are marketing to has no idea they've been marketed to. This takes savvy, and is not exclusive to actors.
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Jack Daniel
Cinquecento


Joined: 23 Jun 2016
Posts: 530
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is gold: "The smart marketer markets in a way the person they are marketing to has no idea they've been marketed to."

This same advice has been given to me by buyers, producers, and their decision-making fellows in many ways, and for me it frankly took a while to sink in.

All one has to do is fire up the Socials to see how poorly this advice is heeded.
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Jack Daniel
Voice Talent / Man About Town
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Bruce
Boardmeister


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 7348
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Social media has in many cases become a home for high flying egos and sewer dwelling trolls, which makes enjoying certain pages or learning from them a real challenge. Jimmy Kimmel has the occasional segment with famous performers reading mean tweets about themselves. They usually chortle or shake their heads. Maybe thatís a choice. Or just head for the friendly VO related sites like ....
Hmmmmmm.


B
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I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 10597

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 - Nobody cares what a nobody thinks.
2 - No successful person or business wastes time on Facebook other than to generate sales.
3 - Free advice represents excellent value for money.
4 - Most "Guidance" is simply regurgitated ignorance.
5 - The pro's offering guidance will charge you. Would you action anything a free Lawyer told you. "Murder is fine but don't do it in Walmart"
6 - STUPID PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THEY ARE STUPID!

Here's the key. You have to find what made the equation work. Landing on the Hudson. Remove Capt Sullenberger from the equation it was unlikely to work. With that in mind; Deebs commented on one of my post regarding sales and marketing with pinpoint accuracy. No snark, just the truth.

"Philip Banks can do whatever the hell he likes!"

I'll teach you anything, it will cost you. When you remove Philip Banks from the equation will it work? Unlikely.
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Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3635
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's not be coy about this... it's the Voiceover Pros group.

Now, whether it's right or wrong, the group admin has been trying to steer the group away from simple broad-stroke questions e.g. What mic do you use?. How do I get an agent? How should I market? Do you slate? ... and stuff like that. Basically, the questions have been asked a million times and a simple search will reveal comprehensive answers... and asking again (without bringing anything to the table) is perceived as a lazy option and rankles somewhat. As has been said... there are dozens of Facebook VO groups which are usually used as marketing tools for their admins where all are welcome, and all engagement is encouraged (because engagement engenders sales!). The VO Pros group isn't selling anything and is administered much like VO-BB (meaning, without a self-serving purpose or as a marketing tool). It is trying to maintain it's own niche in a very crowded scene... and because it has set itself up as a professional group (rather than the dumping ground for everyone's god-awful blogs and self-promotion), it has been called "elitist". You cannot please everybody... and maybe that's the point... because if you try and please everybody, nothing will taste different. I will absolutely agree that some of the discussions on VO Pros can get heated and snarky... and some go completely off the rails before the admin can shut them down. I have been known to be a tad sarcastic on occasions in that particular forum. If it's not to your taste, or you feel badly treated, there are two clear options... ride it out, or walk away. There are many other groups.

Bottom line?
It's Facebook... a carbuncle on the backside of humanity. It really doesn't matter one jot.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.
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Bob Bergen
Flight Attendant


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 824

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is indeed the group I referred to, Bish. And I would not call it elitist at all! I have a hard time calling it pro. My issues with it which prompted my leaving were not vo related.

Steve Blum has an outstanding page for vo actors. Mostly newbies. I participate because they are starving for a professional's POV. I have answered the same questions over and over. If they knew the answer they wouldn't' ask. Happy to do so.
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todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 9981
Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. i have been facetube free since 2011, and am very happy. ymmv
2. i have known many "marketing tools", some of them i even like
3. you do not have to be particularly good at something to be "elitist"
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 10597

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

5. Basic numeracy is essential in our business.
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Lee Gordon
A Zillion


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6622
Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bish wrote:
I have been known to be a tad sarcastic on occasions in that particular forum.


NO !!!
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Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 10597

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above was a little negative!

I liken the great brains and talents of Facebooks groups to 11 year old kids who eventually go on to the "High School" and conclude.

"I am SO ......."
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