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Pop/Glitch Identification
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Adam Verner
Contributore Level V


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 198
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:17 pm    Post subject: Pop/Glitch Identification Reply with quote

Anyone recognize this type of pop/glitch?
I used to get it once or twice for an entire audio books, 6-8 hours, and the proofer would catch it so it wasn't much of an issue. It seems to be increasing in frequency now, I had 4 of them in one :60 audition yesterday.
(sample WAV file here: http://adamverner.squarespace.com/storage/Loud%20Pop%20Examples.wav)

You can clearly see them in the spectral view, a nice fat bar going top to bottom.
My setup is AT4050 -> Symetrix 528e -> RME Fireface 400. Is it more likely a cable? Mic cable, cable from Symetrix to RME (forget the type), or even the firewire cable to the computer from the RME?

I know, I know, replace all the components one at a time...just hoping to identify which one to start with.
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dwpthe3rd
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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Location: Where palm trees meet pines

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awright... a stepped process of elimination please. Does it occur during quiet recording moments, or only during speech portion of recording?
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Adam Verner
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, good question! Now that you mention it, it only occurs during moments of speaking - never during a quite or room tone moment.
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Frank F
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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Location: Park City, Utah

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of questions:

1) Are you using an outboard drive to record your files? Is the external drive larger enough to handle the files (needs three times the space of the file to record).

2) What is your buffering set up?

3) Have you optimized your set-up (computer for recording)?

4) What other "gear" is connected to the computer when recording?

5) Check the cables, one at a time, just set up the computer to record and play some music or something after changing one cable at a time. Tedious, but it works.

6) Apple or PC for the workstation? Firewire into lightening? Or direct firewire? Chipset for the firewire? (Is it compatible?)

Good luck.

F2
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Adam Verner
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Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank! You are a font of wisdom and a mensch.
Not sure I can answer all of these, but here's my best shot:

High level: Win7 on PC, using AA 3.0.

1) No - I have windows on a C drive, record all files to local D drive, and back up nightly to a USB external. D drive should have plenty of space yet, 223 GB free of 2 TB.

2) Buffering: I assume you mean within AA?
Cache size 32 MB, 5 levels undo.

3) Optimize - nope, this computer is about 7 years old. Powerspec from Microcenter. Core i7 4770k CPU @ 3.5 GHz, 64 bit, 32 gigs RAM.
Don't really know what "optimizing for recording" means...

4) Gear: 2 sets of wireless keyboard/mouse (out and inside booth). External speakers in office (not used while recording), external USB hard drive, Scansnap (not active or on unless I'm actually scanning paperwork), webcam, USB WiFi adapter. I think that's about it.

5) When you say "changing one cable at a time" do you mean actually replacing the mic cable, for example? Before, this happened so infrequently that it woudl be a hassle to test like that...but if it's happening more now maybe it's more doable.

6) PC, firewire straight into the box from the RME.
Would the chipset be "IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers" in the Device Manager? If so, it's: Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller
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Frank F
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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Location: Park City, Utah

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what I glean from your information:

The fun part begins NOW. Changing cables is the first priority. Start with NEW USB/firewire cables and then move on - one at a time.

Pagination with the wireless/WiFi connections may also be an issue. Try turning off the WiFi when recording. Disconnect one of the keyboards when not in use... keyboards, mice, etc. will attempt to reset often when not in use to keep the connection and this may cause a stutter in the recording.

Get another external drive, they are cheap these days. Use it exclusively for recording and empty/move the files once complete. The MTBF on your external drive may near, see if this idea makes a difference.

F2
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FinMac
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Joined: 14 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:50 am    Post subject: Similar but different Reply with quote

I had similar problem but with different equipment.

Using the Apollo Twin Duo into an iMac. Random clicks would show up in the recordings. The people at Universal Audio had me reset the firmware. Didn't help!

Then they wrote, "Most cases where there is a clocking type issue with clicks and pops, it's either a software removal/reset, hardware reset, firmware reload, or something more specific to what that user has going on."

They had me uninstall the software and reinstall it. Didn't help!

They suggested it might be the Thunderbolt cable. That is often the issue. I never touch the cable so it is hard to believe it has gone bad.

But when I spoke with George Whittam, when he worked on setting up the Townsend Labs Sphere L22 with the Apollo, he suggested that the Apollo takes a lot of resources from the computer and suggested getting an SSD drive.

But the problem has gone away by itself. At least for now. But an SSD drive is probably the right solution.

Years ago I had an Firewire interface but it caused many problems. USB seems to be a more reliable way to go.

Hope you find your solution soon !
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sounddguy
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Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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Location: Atlanta, GA USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Pop/Glitch Identification Reply with quote

Adam Verner wrote:
Anyone recognize this type of pop/glitch?
Try recording on the external drive, given the age of your d: drive. Might be the drive going south.
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dwpthe3rd
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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Location: Where palm trees meet pines

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Verner wrote:
Hmm, good question! Now that you mention it, it only occurs during moments of speaking - never during a quite or room tone moment.

Based on this, I'd suspect the mic might be the problem. Do you have an alternate mic you can try? Are you in a highly humid environment? Maybe try storing your AT4050 in a gallon size ziplok baggie with some desiccant drying packets - a cheap, no-brainer attempt to suss out a potential prob.
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Adam Verner
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Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 198
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you everyone!
Here's what I'm going to try first:

1) replace my external drive (get a larger one while I'm at it). I've been meaning to do it anyway, and it weirdly causes AA3.0 to freeze for 20 seconds when saving a file (sometimes).

2) Get new cables: mic cable and Symetrix - > RME. I'll wait on the firewire because:

3) Look into replacing the Symetrix - they don't make them anymore, and I'm tired of installing firewire cards, I want to move to something that uses standard USB. (anyone know of a good comparable channel strip? I only use the downward expansion and compression).

4) Maybe get a new mic - my 4050 was used when I bought it 10 years ago, so not sure exactly how old it is. I'm in CO so I don't think humidity is an issue Smile The 4040 is half the price and looks much the same...
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Deirdre
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need an external drive for recording.
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Adam Verner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks DB! Can you tell me why exactly? I usually record to an internal SSD drive (separate from the OS drive), then back up to the external...what's better/different about recording directly to the external?
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Frank F
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to steal DB's thunder, but, when the MTBF factor on a drive occurs or is nigh... the drive tends to lose it's place and skip around looking for a good place to store the data.

Although changing cables is always the first line of attack, a good drive change never hurts either.

F2
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Deirdre
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to Frank's Cable Cuprit.
George Sanger (Wing Commander) says "It's always the cables".

And I misunderstood your setup.
It sounds like you've got it sorted as long as you've recording to a drive that's separate from your OS.

This is what I get from reading too fast!
I also thought I recognized the shape of the glitch.

And MTBF = Mean Time Between Failures
it's how you measure the life of a drive. Because they *will* fail.
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Frank F
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to DB. Sorry I did not define the term MTBF.

Thanks for fixing me.

F2
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