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Mike Harrison M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 2029 Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: What are the ways clients find us? |
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Things change so quickly these days. How do those in need of voice-over services find us? Are some methods notably more popular than others? More specifically, is Google (and/or other search engines) still widely used in finding VO talent? _________________ Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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Bob Bergen CM
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 939
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Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience they go through agents. |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:25 am Post subject: |
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People spend a great deal of time trying to second guess "marketing VO" without much real success because little or nothing really connects with the source.
Physics. Water will never trickle up. The basis of most voice over marketing is basically based on the baseless basis that water trickles up. Water will never trickle up.
Latest industry figures of my own invention point to the fact that over 107% of Voice Actors are found and hired through Agents. Those Actors in the UK belong to the union Iniquity and the US SOGGY-AFRO. How successful are these latter day Tolpuddle Martyrs?
Only the top 2% of UK Actors earn over $25,000 per year.
SAG-AFTRA in the US number show 85% make less than $16,000 per year.
Look again at those numbers and keep in mind that they include all work available to members not just voice jobs.
For what they are worth here are my 2 marketing tips.
1 - Make sure you can be found.
2 - If you approach people aim as high as you can because you, like water, are unable to trickle up.
Today there is more money to be made exploiting the needs of voice over people than there is to be made as a voice over. In both camps we have a ridiculous over supply and rampant exploitation. Will the movers, shakers and shouters in the so-called Voice Over community unite to stamp on the real threats to our income? They didn't last time. |
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Bish 3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 3738 Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Philip Banks wrote: | Today there is more money to be made exploiting the needs of voice over people than there is to be made as a voice over. - Will the movers, shakers and shouters in the so-called Voice Over community unite to stamp on the real threats to our income? They didn't last time. | ... and they won't this time either.
There are a large number of "mover, shakers, and shouters" who see the exploitation... and rather than encourage the peasants to take up torches and pitchforks and storm the castle, they try and work out how they can get a slice of the pie for themselves.
"This industry will exploit the newcomer - don't fall prey to charlatans and scammers. Learn all of this at my weekend retreat, only $599!"
... and as a sensible response to Mike's original question:
Agents
Production house rosters
Networking
Random Google searches
notes:
P2P didn't make the list
Direct marketing would have made the list if I could be arsed to do any. _________________ Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
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todd ellis A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 10491 Location: little egypt
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:37 am Post subject: |
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i get most of my work from good old fashioned cold calling & hand shaking. but, that's just 18th century me. _________________ "i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
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Bruce Boardmeister
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 7925 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I suggest getting on the Internet and pretending you’re a buyer looking for a voice talent. Search using standard terms and terms more specific to your abilities and desires. You’ll find a lot of dreck but in there are some nuggets that will appeal.
Also visit websites of voice talents you find appealing and see which agents and production houses they are affiliated with.
B _________________ VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005
I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. . |
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Lee Gordon A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 6844 Location: West Hartford, CT
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Philip Banks wrote: | Will the movers, shakers and shouters in the so-called Voice Over community unite to stamp on the real threats to our income? They didn't last time. |
They (some, anyway) would if they could, but it is an impossible task.
If a tree falls in the woods and you don't have ears, you will not hear it. _________________ Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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Deirdre Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 13016 Location: East Jesus, Maine
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Bob Bergen wrote: | In my experience they go through agents. |
Which is great if you can get one! _________________ DBCooperVO.com |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Deirdre wrote: | Bob Bergen wrote: | In my experience they go through agents. |
Which is great if you can get one! |
Affiliated with a Manager, of course. Who knows a guy who can produce that awesome demo so you may then get an audience with the great intuitive coach.
Now that I've thought this through I see how easy it is!
Make money with your voice - It's the future! |
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Bob Bergen CM
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 939
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Bruce wrote: | I suggest getting on the Internet and pretending you’re a buyer looking for a voice talent. Search using standard terms and terms more specific to your abilities and desires. You’ll find a lot of dreck but in there are some nuggets that will appeal.
Also visit websites of voice talents you find appealing and see which agents and production houses they are affiliated with.
B |
I think Bruce gets the Blue Ribbon for advice on this thread! If you want to know what they buyers want, think like them. Seeking voice talent like a buyer can give you an idea of who is out there seeking employment.
My world is very different. I would say 90% of my work just comes from agent supplied auditions. Random cold calls would not work. And if a buyer is randomly interested in me they know to contact my agent. In fact, I myself would never take a job if personally contacted. I just forward them on to my agent.
But getting back to Bruce's great advice. All actors need to get the best idea of what it is like in other's shoes. DB makes a great point, it is indeed hard to get an agent. But most out there seeking representation do not think like an agent when submitting. They haven't a clue what do do once they have an agent. It was much harder to get an agent when I started out, when the industry demanded all be union and (or) live in LA/NY/CHI. I got extremely lucky getting my first agent. But I had no idea what to do about it. I took a class at UCLA on how to be an agent. Not that I wanted to be an agent. I needed to learn the agent's business model. Their day to day. I wanted to learn how an agent agents their clients. I needed to learn how to agent my agent. If an actor is represented and has a relationship with their representation that allows this, ask to spend a day at their office and just be a fy on the wall. Watch them pitch talent. Watch them cast auditions. Watch them deal with high maintenance clients. Watch them negotiate.
Google ad agencies in your area. Bond with some ad writer/producers and ask if you can be a fly on the wall there. Perhaps you can witness the evolution of an ad, from inception to casting to recording. I did this years ago as well. It was fascinating to witness rejections, especially rejections of great reads. It was like Sophie's Choice, watching these buyers go through the frustrations of rejecting great reads due to their client's preferences. Or having to pass on a great read because the actor wasn't available. Or because someone in the agency remarked the actor was difficult at sessions which forced this great read to be rejected.
I also love Bruce's idea to reach out to talent who have the career you are striving for. I had no internet when I was starting out. But what I did have was an all day weekend workout group, which was attended by some of the top vo talent in the industry. From Don LaFontaine, to Danny Dark, Ernie Anderson, etc. No idea why they accepted and embraced this 19 year old beginner, but they did. The best education I got was during lunch when they shared war stories and gave career advice. The best advice:
1) Don't rub elbows or seek advice from those on the same boat or smaller boat as you. Go to those with a yacht that you only dream about having. Research their journey, their drive, their strategy. Emulate! You are as good as the company you keep. Eventually your reputation will grow as others on their own yachts get wind of you, as you are becoming respected and accepted by the tops in the industry, from other actors to their agents, casting directors, and buyers. You organically become one of them even without the bookings or career.
2) Always play the part of a successful voice actor and never break character. If you carry yourself as one of the best, someone at the top, the industry will treat you accordingly.
These top voice actors shared their extreme highs as well as (confidentially) their extreme lows. They also shared a huge secret. No one ever knew of their lows. They kept that info to themselves. If/when they lost a campaign, or found their bookings drop, they didn't share these vulnerabilities. They didn't dwell on them either. All of them shared their marketing secrets and strategies. Strategies I still use today. It's much easier and cheaper today as it is all done electronically, saving me thousands annually I used to spend on mailings.
B |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: |
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In Montacute, Somerset the Montacute Tea rooms, B&B and Television Museum (seriously) was also the local Post Office. Proof that diversification is King!
"How is the Post Office funded?" I asked Alan who ran the entire enterprise with his wife.
"By you!" He grinned relieving me of the dozens of small packages containing CDs, CVs and packets of Opal Fruits.
http://www.montacutemuseum.co.uk/ |
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Tre M. Backstage Pass
Joined: 01 Nov 2017 Posts: 489 Location: Vegas, the desert part.
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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todd ellis wrote: | i get most of my work from good old fashioned cold calling & hand shaking. but, that's just 18th century me. |
Ditto, as well as my agent and manager. Still a good phone call and email works just fine for me. _________________ Tre@trespeaksforyou.com
Www.trespeaksforyou.com
Skype: TKM32246
Source Connect: http://source-connect.com/tremovo |
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Jack Daniel Cinquecento
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 576 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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My strategies, aka my random earnest maneuverings which I later style "strategies," have changed as my situation has changed.
I used to post fairly often about work I was doing as a means of "marketing," but a couple of come-to-Jesus convos with my agent and manager disabused me of that practice. Now I don't brag-post at all and everyone is much happier.
I don't call on producers because it would put me on a list of untouchables. This is not true for all types of work, but if you want to do promo, trailer, or class A commercial you're not going to get it via direct outreach. Reps spend their careers cultivating relationships with green-lighters and it would muck things up irreparably if I were to step in and "help." If I see an opportunity that not's coming my way, I can ask my reps to make a call or launch a little campaign on my behalf, but outside organic meetings (where the last thing you should bring up is your voice work), I don't cultivate first-degree relationships with the people who pull the trigger. The last thing they want is talent bugging them. Again, this is for certain types of work, obviously not all.
I have a network producer friend who gave me some advice. He said, "I'm going to tell you something that will help you, but I can also tell you I've given this advice to many other VOs and precisely NONE of them has taken said advice. It's simple: when you meet a decision-maker, talk about anything but don't talk about your work. And never post about your own work--it's bush league and you will be lumped in with the wannabes." Well, I failed to take his advice and proceeded to post about work since I saw other people doing it; until, that is, I was given the same talk by the agents and manager mentioned earlier. I hope someone else will profit by it, but probably not. _________________ Jack Daniel
Narrator / Man About Town |
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Bob Bergen CM
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 939
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Jack, you just put into words what separates the professional from the amateur. Brilliant stuff! It’s the ego that prompts an actor to discuss their vo booking or audition journey. It’s the smart business man who understands the difference of promoting the event. Actors commit career suicide everyday with vanity postings and haven’t a clue. From buyers and agents seeing their amateur postings to other actors advising whom to avoid due to an unprofessional social media presence. Most will not take your words to heart. But the few who float to the top will. Your post is a gift, my friend. |
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Bruce Boardmeister
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 7925 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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We all like to brag a little when we've gotten a big job or a truly unique one. That's why I created the "Recent Projects" Folder. That's available only to signed in members and not Internet bots and search engines.
If you can't brag amongst friends, who can you brag to? I mean I can tell my wife and my mother what I've done, but there's just so far "that's nice dear" can take you.
I say go ahead and brag a little. There are no ad agency people or talent agents here to offend. Done something extra entertaining or wacky? Done a national spot? We'd love to see it and cheer you on.
B _________________ VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005
I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. . |
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