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The Chuck n Stacy show
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9958
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The appeal of, or the trick to, enjoying any "nonsense" is the power to suspend disbelief. Immerse yourself in the heady world of (insert nonsense here) and go crazy! After the buzz emerge and get on with life, the universe and everything.

For business and the serious stuff switch nonsense detector to 11.

At the end of the game the home team walk off the field heads hung low having gone down 34 - 0. Taylor the head Cheerleader throws her Pom Poms at the Coach and team Captain.

"You Guys lost because you sucked! No excuses." Fellow Cheerleaders applaud and high five her.

Taylor and the entire Cheerleading team are fired!

That is wrong. Simply wrong. Wrong on every level right down to the lowest level, below basement parking where only Wizards and Gnomes live, casting spells and eating sausages.

Humanity - Don't really give a sh*t but pretend you do to be polite.
Business - Shut up and listen to the answer because more often than not you will not get one. We do not buy from them!

I put in a half hearted pitch to VOAtlanta several weeks ago, no reply. The pink Elephant in the room was the question "How many followers/friends do you have on (insert all social media platforms)?" What value does Philip Banks bring to the event? No one cares, nor should they. The value he brings is a potential 100 delegates. That makes good business sense to me. Do I get a special code so that I receive a commission on all tickets sold to my disciples? No. What real value does any speaker bring to that conference? Disciples. Am I judging? No, that's just the way it is.

Do you need to get marketing training from anyone in the VO world without any formal, proven, real world, marketing knowledge? NO!

Do you need to be branded by someone? NO!

Do you need a specialist demo for, (insert here)? NO!

Do you need to spend over $1,500 on any type of demo? NO!

Do you, for the sake of your career, need to plaster images of yourself drinking a pint of Guinness and eating Steak by the side of a lake 5 times a week? No!

Do you need to express your opinion on every part of the "Voiceover Industry"? No.

Does the VO coach or demo producer you recommend pay YOU a commission? No!!!!!

Are you grounded? NO!

You should be. Why? Coz from there the only way is up.

Be grounded in all things, not "popular" in the Voice Over Community. If you don't you'll end up in a dark corner of below basement parking watching Wizards and Gnomes casting spells and eating sausages.
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Bob Bergen
DC


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 697

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if VO Atlanta doesn't have a UK presenter booked I actually think you would bring value. Granted, I doubt there are many attendees from the UK, but there may be a handful of transplants or even visitors who might find what you have to offer extremely valuable. If they do have a UK presenter booked I can understand they wouldn't want or need any more. But not getting back to you is just rude. I appreciate the promoter is busy, but everyone is busy.

Now, the majority who attend that convention are indeed from the US. And the majority of those who benefit from VO Buzz Weekly are also from the US. The target audience is interested in the kind of vo career reflected in their caliber of guests. The interviews originated to appeal to those pursuing professional union vo. And for the most part they are consistent in this. But over 300 plus interviews they have branched out to include professionals outside the LA market as well.

But the internet reaches everyone. So just by being online, any resource appears to be appropriate for any viewer. And the wrong approach based on info not appropriate for your market could backfire.

Philip, I think your advice on the various "no" responses might indeed pertain to Europe and in particular your career. But trust me, my friend, your advice does not pertain to much of the vo industry in the states. Even if one isn't in a major market, I can only imagine taking to heart the advice of the top agents, casting directors, voice directors, ad execs, promo producers, and actors in the vo industry can only benefit. As I said previously, you need to sift past the approach of the hosts that don't float your boat and you will find an abundance of invaluable information you cannot find anywhere else. AND for free!

I've seen it too many times actors taking their career to the next level by adjusting their demos and (or) approach in securing an agent based on the advice by top professionals on VO Buzz Weekly. I've worked on animated projects with newbies who have shared that taking advice from Sandie Schnarr and Andrea Romano from their interviews put them ahead of the game and taught them what these buyers demanded. Many of these interviews take out the guessing game and give the actor tangible tools catered for each subject matter.

I recently came back from teaching a vo workshop on a cruise ship. Thirty five actors from all over the world. All from different areas with different approaches. The one thing all were unanimous on was the value they get from these interviews. And the conversation on these interviews was instigated by a UK talent who signed with DPN after utilizing the info gathered from the agent interviews. She'd tried in the past, but was using an approach appropriate for her market. She adjusted her demos and she adjusted her pitch to agents. She got multiple offers and had the enviable dilemma of having to pick just one. And she now has a career she never fathomed. Now, she is in the minority as the majority pursuing the arts will not succeed on that level. But hey, that's show biz!

I also appreciate the kind of career these buyers and professionals representing these interviews isn't for everyone. But how vo is pursued in the UK is so vastly different from how it is pursued in the states. Which is why if there are UK attendees at VO Atlanta they need to hear the best way to pursue from someone like you. But please be conscientious that when advising online you reach everyone. It is hard to impossible to get second chances in much of the professional vo landscape.

Now, I myself am speaking at VO Atlanta. The value I get out of it is paying it forward. That is really the reason I started teaching in the first place, and the reason I spend a good 10% of my day dishing out free vo advice. Of course I get compensated in Atlanta because after 30 plus years in this business my time has value. But I'm also taking a hit in the pocket book as I turned down an appearance fee for another event that would have paid 10 times what VO Atlanta pays. I don't seek out disciples and more often than not lose folks in my very honest and blunt approach to the truths of the industry and what is demanded by those who seek the kind of career I work. But I'm not there to bring everyone into the fold. I'm there to reach the few or even the one who have the "it" factor to pursue animation. That's my offer to this or any con.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9958
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right. I may indeed have something to say but, as usual, the key is relevance.

Application of informed comments from respected speakers should always be followed by the person listening asking themselves the very pointed question "What on Earth has that got to do with me?" It's very liberating.

Once again thank you for your informed perspective as tt keeps people, at what ever stage they are in our business, moving forward.
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Dave Waters
Contributor II


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 57
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exciting news!

I just received an invitation to attend a free real estate seminar coming soon to my area! I'll have a chance to attend a masterclass on how to make millions buying and selling properties. Never mind I have no experience, it's been determined that I have the it factor.

But wait, there's more!

If I want to take my knowledge to the next level, I can sign up for a cruise where the learning is enhanced by the ocean spray in my face.

I'm being told I can't afford not to take this important first step.

And, did I mention - it's Free!
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Dave Waters
www.davewatersvo.com
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Bob Bergen
DC


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 697

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to find and recommend this as the respectful, professional vo forum. Guess all things change. Fortunately there are others.
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todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 9332
Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

everybody has an opinion on conferences - everybody views training differently.

this thread - at times, irreverent ... yes. disrespectful? i don't think so.

there are some of us who want nothing more to be a big promo voice or animation star in hollywood or NYC --- want or need an agent, publicist, manager, etc. and there are some of us quite happy in flyover country, banging away at what we do, thankyouverymuch. to paraphrase philip - we are all at "whatever stage in our business" that we are (if that makes any sense). different strokes & all that. i rarely understand what philip is talking about - but mostly enjoy reading it. bob & i have base-level division of opinion on unions. AND, both of these people are some of the most generous folk i know, freely sharing their knowledge & expertise at no charge here & elsewhere. i think dave was trying to be funny and not directly comparing bob to a real estate scam artist.

that said - i still believe this to be a "respectful, professional vo forum"
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9958
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have nothing but respect for Bob's expertise, views and opinions, and am grateful beyond measure for his contribution made not only here but elsewhere.

I firmly believe the VO-BB remains as written above "as the respectful, professional vo forum" I see no change. When people have crossed the line I have witnessed the most extreme measures to combat the nonsense of contributors.

This topic, started by me, was a bit of Red Flag waving. Not personal, just business. Not anti-individuals or intended to offend. The liberal use of humour was to lighten a serious subject. The subject is serious but in the grand scheme of things not particularly important.

In LA a few years ago I met a delightful young man who had bought everything recommended to him by the VO Cheerleaders. He was earning a living. He was our Waiter in a Sushi Restaurant. He was paying off his debts, no prizes for guessing how he got into debt in the first place.

There are people held up as "Respected members of the Voice Over community." I'm not one of them. Long may that remain the case.
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Tre M.
Backstage Pass


Joined: 01 Nov 2017
Posts: 441
Location: Florida, the cold part.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking on conferences, the best connections I made were when folks were just being themselves, not trying to scramble to a session and throwing a biz card in your face on the way. Just eating and talking with people.

I was put in a position to get work by simply talking to people and realizing what certain set of skills I have could be of a benefit and vice versa.


I went to VO ATL from day 1. Each year I tried to take something from it to enhance my career.

In 2016/17 I almost quit VO. I went to VO Atlanta one last time, and came away with newer connections and more work and an referral with an agency, which I'm now signed with in Atlas.

Last year at the conference I noticed some changes I wasn't pleased with. Other than the camaraderie, I won't dont think I'll miss much this year. I want to invest more of my time and money into the business, which is ME.
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Source Connect: http://source-connect.com/tremovo
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Bruce
Boardmeister


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6610
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Bergen wrote:
I used to find and recommend this as the respectful, professional vo forum. Guess all things change. Fortunately there are others.


This is a First Amendment website as well as a First Amendment country. We are free to express our views here on VO-BB up to the point of ad hominem (personal) attacks. I've seen no clear evidence of crossing that line. All that's been seriously denigrated has been the podcasters' deliveries. Some find it so offensive they won't listen to them even if the material is of value. Earnest critiques are part of life here.

I know it hurts when one's ox is gored, and if one wants to find lovelier, kinder discussions of all things voiceover elsewhere, one is encouraged to do so. If you like opinions from VO professionals delivered with a minimum of varnish, then stick around.

B
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I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV.
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Bob Bergen
DC


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 697

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce, ya made my point far better that I!
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Karyn OBryant
Club 300


Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Posts: 341
Location: Portlandia-adjacent

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. The important thing is that we're willing to remain friends despite differences of opinion or little skirmishes.

It's what makes this place special, and the folks here extraordinary.
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Pretending to be other people since 1986.

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Bish
Triple G


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3386
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

todd ellis wrote:
... i rarely understand what philip is talking about - but mostly enjoy reading it.

This is one of the problems of a multi-cultural environment. Philip and I were both brought up immersed in the "theatre of the absurd", whether that was The Goons, Python, or Milligan riffing on J.B. Morton's Beachcomber (I blame the BBC)... and that's reflected in the way we communicate. This doesn't always translate on a word-for-word basis... but the meaning is usually crystal clear - albeit buried in late-middle twentieth century Britishness.

Sometimes the actual words are secondary to the form and flow of a message (something voiceoverists should know!). Back around 1980, I became enraptured by The Hitch-Hikers Guide to The Galaxy radio serial. I was living in The Netherlands at the time and caught my first episode while spinning through the stations on the hotel radio. It was in Dutch. It didn't matter... the way the whole thing was put together was absolutely captivating... and the fact that I didn't have even the most basic understanding of Dutch was almost irrelevant.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.
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Bailey
4 Large


Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 4330
Location: Lake San Marcos... north of Connie, northwest of the Best.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
I know it hurts when one's ox is gored...


Simmer down! Simmer down!

You're making the Llama nervous!
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"Bailey"
a.k.a. Jim Sutton
Retired... Every day is Saturday, except Sunday.
VO-BB Member #00044 W00T
AOVA Graduate 02/2004 ;
"Be a Voice, not an Echo."Ninja
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todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 9332
Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is one of the problems of a multi-cultural environment.


i just meant, i'm not all that bright.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9958
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the difference.

USA - REALLY!
Laugh

UK- Really? Rolls Eyes
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