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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:48 am Post subject: VO conference coaches/speakers |
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At every conference I am able to name plus some I can't there will be numerous debates about lowballers, poor rates, pay the pro to be a pro accompanied by a great deal of fist shaking.
AT every conference be it a business organising the event or a professional (voice actor) organisation. Speakers, with no exception I am able to name, are expected to work for nothing or hope to do the "Main Event" free with the hope of upselling attendees to a private Group session. Whilst there may be "expenses" paid in certain cases it's worth pointing out that expenses are the same as working for nothing.
Think of all the excuses potential clients use when offering Voices no pay for ..
Fair pay for everyone in our business means exactly that. |
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Deirdre Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 13016 Location: East Jesus, Maine
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:49 am Post subject: |
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The biggest video game shindig, the Game Developers Conference, does not pay speakers nor does it pay their expenses (unless they are "Keynote" or "Celeb" speakers).
Businesses pay to get space on the expo floor and they pay to get meeting rooms to interview potential hires.
People spend their own money (or their company expenses it) to go to the conference because "everyone is there".
It's a party with 25,000 of your closest friends.
Deals are made. People find work.
Cards are exchanged and contract negotiations begun.
Sometimes.
(It is a great money-making machine for someone.)
You do need to figure out how to navigate. I don't create talks for that conference any more because I learned it's not worth it. Too much stress, zero return. BEING there is worth it, because all my industry friends are there, and I get to enjoy a few days being "The Legendary DB Cooper".
Conferences are great if they are multi-tiered, and "seekers" of all strata are involved. _________________ DBCooperVO.com |
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Eddie Eagle M&M
Joined: 23 Apr 2008 Posts: 2393
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:55 am Post subject: |
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It's a PR/Advertising strategy. Exposure. |
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Bish 3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 3738 Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I think there is a paradigm shift happening. Certainly, there are some conferences with a "let's put the show on in the barn" attitude where everything is peer driven and there are no paid speakers... but the times, they are a'changing.
The celebs are realizing their worth in the ever-increasing conference market. They make (usually reasonable) demands regarding transportation, accommodation, and fees. One of the intangibles is that it raises their profile and feeds their own endeavors, which may mitigate their fee. Even moving away from the celebs... solid VOs who are know to be subject-matter-experts are seen as attractive commodities... and the major conferences will provide a very reasonable remunerative package.
There are different business models... Faffcon has always been peer-driven. WoVO is not-for-profit... but other conferences are run as legitimate businesses requiring a healthy bottom-line. They buy resources, package them as a bundle, and sell for a profit... the "resources" have started to realize their worth and are now far less likely to work for "exposure bucks". _________________ Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Bish wrote: | Faffcon has always been peer-driven. |
Is that still a thing? |
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Lee Gordon A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 6844 Location: West Hartford, CT
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Funny how we stamp our feet and shake our fists over the Fiverrrrs and Voices-dot-coms and all the other low-ballers in the voiceover world, yet we don't hesitate to use an Uber instead of a cab, or AirBnB instead of a hotel, or Amazon instead of the local merchant, often just because we want to save a buck. And somehow, we feel our business has to be immune from the laws of supply and demand. _________________ Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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Bruce Boardmeister
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 7926 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: |
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I'd much rather hear views from my experienced peers (modern definition) who paid their own way than a bunch of folks who paid their own way just to sell me stuff based on their views.
B _________________ VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005
I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. . |
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JohnV Been Here Awhile
Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 230 Location: Md/DC
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Oh it's good to hear this from somewhere besides my own inner voice.
Like RIGHT TO WORK (FOR LESS!) states...
Lee Gordon wrote: | Funny how we stamp our feet and shake our fists over the Fiverrrrs and Voices-dot-coms and all the other low-ballers in the voiceover world, yet we don't hesitate to use an Uber instead of a cab, or AirBnB instead of a hotel, or Amazon instead of the local merchant, often just because we want to save a buck. And somehow, we feel our business has to be immune from the laws of supply and demand. |
_________________ SoundscenesDC, main talent and production offices just 385k km up the gravity well in LuNoHoCo Center, old satellite studios still bookable at the future site of Johnson City! |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Using the courtroom meaning we need to prosecute the largely rag bag band of VO coaches out there selling sh*te.
Any real pro will answer questions without blinking and deal with follow up comments with equal good grace.
A year or so ago, Rudy Gaskin of SAVALOY fame posted a link on Twitter promoting an article in their Backpassage Magazine. Several points on "How to make more money as a Voice Actor". I glanced at it and saw there were a few possible ideas. I replied with the intention of drawing him out so anyone reading could nod and exclaim "AWESOME!"
PB - Superb stuff! Could you give a few example of how they actually worked?
RG - #Isn'tIt obvious?
PB - You really need to stop doing that. Unhelpful
TWITTER - RG and savaloy have blocked you from seeing their feed
Opportunity not missed. When coaches and most people know something you can't shut them up.
The TV evangelist/ Charismatic Christian Church model is alive and well in our world. Anyone who dares to question is simply thrown out where there is an weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. To be convinced you can get away with anything simply surround yourself with people who will let you get away with anything.
I am not suggesting we get aggressive with people but we should dig a little in order to discover the value of the material or teaching method.
At Faffcon in Chocolate P.A one of the session held was "Improv". Great fun! As the session progressed I wondered how we as Voice Actors would use the lessons learned in this session on Monday. I played and watched. Fun, but what about value?
"Idea" said the fat bloke "During this improv the performers should end with the fact that Ford have reduced the price of all their cars by $1,500"
AWESOME!
After 12 minutes of applause and me being high-fived by the Voice Over community's finest the three performers went into action and subsequently fell into a million pieces. Amongst the Voice Over community's finest, there was three of 'em, performing this improv to sell the finest vehicles made by Mr Ford, was David Goldberg. David as we all know has over 1,000 years experience as a Voice Actor, has written over a billion commercials and has directed 87,000 national local ads probably broadcast on an international basis to say nothing of training actors to be Voice Talent.
We have OAV - Officially Accredited Voiceoverist members. Next I propose the IVC - Invalueless Voiceover Coach. |
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Lee Gordon A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 6844 Location: West Hartford, CT
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Philip Banks wrote: |
TWITTER - RG and savaloy have blocked you from seeing their feed.
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That's their (his and his lovely wife's) move. _________________ Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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Karyn OBryant Cinquecento
Joined: 23 Jul 2013 Posts: 561 Location: Portlandia-adjacent
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Philip Banks wrote:
Quote: | At Faffcon in Chocolate P.A one of the session held was "Improv". Great fun! As the session progressed I wondered how we as Voice Actors would use the lessons learned in this session on Monday. I played and watched. Fun, but what about value? |
There are several kinds of improv. The "theatre games" kind is different from the "acting tools" kind is different from the "long form" kind is different from the "let's make up a musical and amaze everyone" kind. All of them have value for the performer, depending on what the performer wants/needs to get out of it. In my own experience, I have gotten a lot of practical applications to my work through the "acting tools" kind, and a brazen fearlessness out of the "theatre games" kind. I haven't much experience with Long Form or Musical improv. _________________ * * * * * * * * * *
Pretending to be other people since 1986.
www.karynobryant.com |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Fabluss! Thanks for broadening the scope of how improv works in the wider context for all performers. I suspect that most people reading this are untrained actors so you've given us a bigger picture.
My rather simplistic approach was to get people to focus on "How will this help me on Monday?" Training, Coaching, Networking addicts don't like doing that. Truth is that none of us like doing that but we have to get used to doing it. The point of improv for us is that when hired to do a job we are so comfortable doing what we are doing that nothing on the page, no direction, mis-direction, distraction or in some cases rudeness will throw us off course. We act in concert with others even when we do it alone. No matter what is asked of us we are able to stay on message. Most VO people can't do it.
Juggling millions on the world's financial markets.
Playing music live. Stand up comedy.
Learning how to prosecute, defend and wear a Horsehair wig as a pupil Barrister (with cinnamon or Chocolate sprinkles)
Flying a plane a bit.
All the above got me to where I am today, a voice for hire and celebrity knee lookalike. |
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Karyn OBryant Cinquecento
Joined: 23 Jul 2013 Posts: 561 Location: Portlandia-adjacent
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:02 am Post subject: |
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I completely agree that the bottom line of any kind of training is "How will this help me on Monday?" Otherwise, why might you spend your valuable time and money learning it in the first place?
Improv is the kind of thing that takes time to develop your skills. Patience is key here. One cannot learn all about any kind of improv, and be "effortless" in it in just one session. Sometimes it takes years. And that's okay. It's the process and the changes that are taking place within that are really the goal. Which is why it's important, if someone plans to study improv, that they're in it for the long haul.
PS: Mmmm. Cinnamon. _________________ * * * * * * * * * *
Pretending to be other people since 1986.
www.karynobryant.com |
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Lizden A Zillion
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 8856 Location: The dark recesses of my mind
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Improv, and in particular Karyn's guidance in that realm, have been extremely helpful to me in my VO career. There's a certain kind of fearlessness that happens when you allow yourself to "play" - especially in auditions, and that makes reads less stiff, and more engaging.
That said...while in Los Angeles, improv in auditions is encouraged - and according to some casting directors expected and gets you on the short-list - in New York it is frowned upon as not "staying on the page"
Knowing your audience is key...as always.
As to Conferences....The models are different.
FaffCon (Yes, Philip it IS absolutely still a thing!...at least for 1 more time. ) is a peer driven UNconference and you never know what you'll learn...I have never attended a FaffCon without coming away with something to apply to my business (even the one where I couldn't get out of my own way!)
VO Atlanta is a business - it's a Traditional conference that is meant to make money for the organizer, which is fine, and is geared to be a huge event with the price tag to match. He sets the attendee price (almost $700 at this point I believe) so as to be able to pay speakers. Great! That's his model. It has worked for him and people have gotten benefit from attending.
WoVOCon is a member benefit. It is for the members of the Organization (World-Voices) to get together and learn from each other. So it's also peer driven, but set up as a more traditional conference where sessions are set ahead of time and people are aware of what will be presented. But, we keep the price as low as possible so as to not fleece our members. Our rate is half of VO Atlanta's and we do not hold this event as a money making venture as its primary purpose. Yes, we made some money last year. That may not be the case this year. And that's OK...again, it's a member benefit and Presenters at the Con itself are Members who present to other Members.
The SOVAS is an awards event....not the same thing at all.
When I decide to attend ANY conference or training event, I always have the "How will this help me on Monday?" in my mind. Why else attend?
When I was a Presenter at VO Atlanta in 2016, it was ALSO on my mind in terms of what I could present, that the attendees could put into practice on "Monday"
Both FaffCon and WoVOCon have given me Nuggets that I continue to put into play to this day.
...Oh..and this is not a blog. _________________ Liz de Nesnera O.A.V. ~ Livin' The VO Dream!
English/French Bilingual VO w/ ISDN
HireLiz.com / liz@hireliz.com |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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The only question that becomes awkward is when someone gets rattled usually because they have an agenda or simply can't answer it. For newcomers to events, conferences or this business the detailed breakdown from Liz sets things out very clearly. No one will be able to say "Well I DIDN'T know!"
The reason for my Faffcon question was precisely because I thought there would be one more. Delighted to learn that is the case. I'd love to be invited as my PTSD Therapist says it will give me closure. DON'T ASK! |
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