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VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
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Bob Bergen CM
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 939
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Dan-O wrote: | Believe it or not, Bob, you are of today's generation. It's your friends you described that are the dying breed in VO. There is one word that separates you/us from them: hustle. Just a few days ago, you were chatting up your online marketing here on this very board. You went out and found the work. You don't rely on auditions, agents, or residuals; that's a bonus for you. You have more in common with VOs in the flyover states than you give yourself credit. It's work ethic, drive, and focus today's actors need in order to break through the clutter. |
That is a reflection of what I learned in 1978 from the top vo veterans of the day. Marketing done by the vo successful. It's just cheaper today! No longer do we need to spend thousands in reel to reel demos and mailings. Plus, buyers are more easily accessible due to social media.
But I respectfully am not of today's vo generation. I do relate to their drive, just not their business model. I don't and will never invoice. I am not interested in 10 small paying jobs just to work. The day to day of many in vo, e-learning, audio books, etc., just aren't my thing from a creative standpoint. If I were 65 today I would be retiring with a very livable pension, though I have zero desire to retire. However, if all of vo went the way of today's vo generation, I would find other ways to fulfill my creative side.
But Dan, you do bring up an interesting POV. When I got into the business the marketing and hustle was prominent. Somewhere around the late 80s to early 90s it stopped for the most successful in union vo. Actors who booked just by walking into the studio didn't feel the need to market. Then that dried up with the advancement of the internet. This newer union generation with zero marketing experience still to this day haven't a clue how to market. And you are correct, they are dying off. Those working only union who used to be the middle class of union acting are now the elite. And statistically more work non union than union. |
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ConnieTerwilliger Triple G
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3381 Location: San Diego - serving the world
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I remember the regular booth announcer on KFMB TV... the evening weather guy? Bob something? |
Bob Dale was a weather guy who did the staff announcer job part-time. Don Brock was the regular day-time announcer and Doug Oliver, another weather guy was the other part-time staff announcer with Bob. When Bob went to Channel 39 in 1978, I moved from full-time director (the first female to direct news in San Diego) to part-time staff announcer (the first female staff announcer in San Diego). I would not be where I am today without Bob Dale deciding to move to NBC.[/url] _________________ Playing for a living...
www.voiceover-talent.com
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/connieterwilliger |
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todd ellis A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 10491 Location: little egypt
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | My mantra has always been that if you are good at what you do, and do it full time, then it should afford you a reasonable living. |
my thoughts exactly. like moe, a staff sergeant in the vo army.
and bob, i respect you immensely. you are a top-notch cat who shares valuable information & experience freely. it's one of the things i like best in the vo community. _________________ "i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
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Lee Gordon A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 6844 Location: West Hartford, CT
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Bob Bergen wrote: | there will come a day that the non union vo community will be preaching the same thing I am. |
In my opinion, there is no such thing as the "non union vo community." There is the VO community, to which most of us belong. And by "us," I mean the participants in the VO-BB, as well as members of the various Facebook and Linked-In VO groups, Faffers and WoVoists, and any others who commune, commiserate, or convene with their fellow voiceoverists. Some are in the union, and others are not. I am sure there are also people in the union who do voiceovers but are not part of the VO community. Either they are movie and TV actors who consider themselves part of the acting (as opposed to VO) community. Perhaps some grudgingly do VO to earn some cash, although they consider it beneath them. Or maybe they are lone wolves who are not part of any community at all. And that is the category into which I would place a great many, if not the majority of, non-union people who fancy themselves voiceover people. I would guess that the largest single group of people doing VO today are individuals, each on his or her own little island out there in cyberspace, not connected to or affiliated with any of their peers. Whether they are getting five dollars a spot or five thousand dollars, they are completely unaware of any of the discussions about maintaining decent rates, whether from SAG/AFTRA, or from WoVo, or from any other entity. And that's why I believe that, to a very great extent, the effort to bring some semblance of a rate structure to the "community" is tilting at windmills. _________________ Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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todd ellis A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 10491 Location: little egypt
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | individuals, each on his or her own little island out there in cyberspace, not connected to or affiliated with any of their peers |
that was me in 2007 - then amy told me about this place. i was the only voiceoverist i knew, then i wasn't. _________________ "i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
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Bish 3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 3738 Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lee Gordon wrote: | And that's why I believe that, to a very great extent, the effort to bring some semblance of a rate structure to the "community" is tilting at windmills. | Unfortunately, Lee has the measure of this. Organizing VOs is like herding cats. There are far too many who are actually relishing the fact that many "professionals" are taking a harder line on rates because they are happy to pick up the jobs for 20% of what they should pay. Even worse, there are some (so-called) coaches that promote this as an effective business plan. You can't tell a fracker that what they are doing is bad for everyone... the short-term gain blinds them to the long-term repercussions. Whenever you try and organize, people ask, "What's in it for me?" ... and if it isn't immediate access to revenue, then they don't care. This "I'm all right, Jack!" attitude will kill the industry as clients learn that they can get good... or at least serviceable talent for cents on the dollar.
The sad thing is that in a few years I'll be of "pensionable age"... I'm not really going to see the benefits of any solidarity... just the ever-dwindling status of the VO industry. Why should I work for the younger talent who will be massively impacted by the shifts caused by the current apathetic attitude? That's a rhetorical question... I do it because it's important, and I care. _________________ Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:53 am Post subject: |
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About a year or so ago I was asked by a company to suggest some voices so that they could spread the workload and offer variety to their clients. I chose the people who were able to deliver quality whilst drunk, on a Trawler in a storm off the Moray coast, juggling Orca. Hoorah!
The reward for the people who made the cut? Around a 6 figure increase in income. Not one made it to the final cut.
A few years ago I was buried under a funeral pyre of work. I was getting through it but production deadlines were creaking.
"Philip, do we have a problem?" t'was my favourite line manager who was not chasing me, she was concerned.
"I simply can't get 12 hours out of 8" I replied "Call, Yankie Bimbo (so not a made up name), she'll take up the strain and add that much needed female femininity."
I was left alone to do my thing.
Some time later over dinner with Senior Executive Head of Over allness I mentioned Yankie Bimbo, just polite chat. Madam simply rolled her eyes and changed the subject.
Less time earlier I asked a Senior Junior Vice Executive about Yankie Bimbo and her value to their clients.
"No, don't use her. Feedback from clients" she shrugged downing another pint of Tutly Wheelbarrow ale and swallowing a pickled egg whole.
The point, for anyone who may miss it. We all have varying degrees of delusions of adequacy. We desire to educate clients who really do not want to be educated by us or any organisation. "He'll/she'll do" voices are enough and one has to pile 'em high and sell'em cheap to make a living. For those who are actors or business people the former will not do.
Two problems, the biggest problems are, when required the voice fails to show up or when required the voice shows up. |
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Bruce Boardmeister
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 7925 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I have never understood the tales I’ve heard of voice actors being anything other than professional, polite and grateful, even when the client is dickish and dunderheaded. “Works well with others” is more than a grade school concept.
B _________________ VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005
I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. . |
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Real head scratcher for me too!
I once suggested a female VO I know for 3 jobs. One set of three national TV commercials, a network TV documentary and a well paid corporate. Every time I felt compelled to call the producer or director and apologise for the way she behaved
"Thank you" said the man directing the TV commercial "It's not for you to apologise. She got what she wanted THIS time but we'll never use her again!"
For me it was simply, ok Mam, three strikes and you're out.
My last HUGE international TV commercial campaign (11ft x 9ft - estimate) involved very precise direction. The ad would air in 48 countries.
Sorry, Philip" said the very frustrated Creative Director from the ad agency. "Would you mind looking at the 3rd and fourth line ..."
"You're fine" I replied "The worst thing you can ask me to do is read it again, and that's my job. Stop me when you get bored!"
No maths in Voice Over and only Prima Donnas in ballet - As is right and proper. |
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Lee Gordon A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 6844 Location: West Hartford, CT
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
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todd ellis wrote: | i was the only voiceoverist i knew, then i wasn't. |
This is what I'm talking about -- the thousands of pre-VOBB Todds out there. All the individuals working in a vacuum. Bish describes the difficulties of herding the voiceover cats, but those are just the ones who have been located, identified, and had a bag of Friskies™ waved in front of their noses. What I'm talking about are the thousands of solitary cats out there that are totally unreachable because nobody knows who or where they are, and who are not part of any VO community because they are completely unaware such a community exists. _________________ Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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Bish 3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 3738 Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Lee Gordon wrote: | -- the thousands of pre-VOBB Todds out there. All the individuals working in a vacuum. |
Using Todd as an example of VOs working in isolation is wonderfully appropriate, as the expression, "on your tod" refers to being alone. I shall now claim "On your Todd" as the universal descriptor for VOs working in isolation
The expression comes from the rhyming slang "On your Tod Sloan" meaning alone... and as with all rhyming slang, the actual rhyme is dropped. Tod Sloan was a famous jockey born in Indiana (not a million miles from our own Todd's residence in Illinois). Sloan was the subject of George M. Cohan's song "The Yankee Doodle Boy".
See what happens on a slow Saturday! _________________ Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
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todd ellis A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 10491 Location: little egypt
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:18 am Post subject: |
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finally ... FAME!!! _________________ "i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
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Art Contributor III
Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 78 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Lee Gordon wrote: | ...All the individuals working in a vacuum...What I'm talking about are the thousands of solitary cats out there that are totally unreachable because nobody knows who or where they are, and who are not part of any VO community because they are completely unaware such a community exists. |
Of those 25,000 in Los Angeles, I would bet only 10% or less are serious. Many people aspire to many things but only a few are truly motivated. Some are devastatingly talented but prefer to eat donut holes on the couch.
You only have to Google the words "voiceover" and "forum" to find communities now. If someone says they're interested in voiceover but haven't found this board, the many groups on Facebook, VO Buzz Weekly and Dan Courvoisier's blog, how serious are they?
Then there's the chance they don't WANT to be part of a community, and could care less if working for $25 brings down prices across the board. How to make them care...? _________________ Art Howard.com |
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MBVOXX Been Here Awhile
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 232 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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If one is going to work for $25 why not just work for free?
that's ridiculous and yes, it does hurt the entire industry when people who claim to be professional talent work for absurdly low rates. They aren't professional by any standard. |
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Deirdre Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 13016 Location: East Jesus, Maine
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | You only have to Google the words "voiceover" and "forum" to find communities now. |
There's another VO forum? _________________ DBCooperVO.com |
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