VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!
Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Speaking of SAG/AFTRA rates
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index -> Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bob Bergen
CM


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan-O wrote:
Believe it or not, Bob, you are of today's generation. It's your friends you described that are the dying breed in VO. There is one word that separates you/us from them: hustle. Just a few days ago, you were chatting up your online marketing here on this very board. You went out and found the work. You don't rely on auditions, agents, or residuals; that's a bonus for you. You have more in common with VOs in the flyover states than you give yourself credit. It's work ethic, drive, and focus today's actors need in order to break through the clutter.


That is a reflection of what I learned in 1978 from the top vo veterans of the day. Marketing done by the vo successful. It's just cheaper today! No longer do we need to spend thousands in reel to reel demos and mailings. Plus, buyers are more easily accessible due to social media.

But I respectfully am not of today's vo generation. I do relate to their drive, just not their business model. I don't and will never invoice. I am not interested in 10 small paying jobs just to work. The day to day of many in vo, e-learning, audio books, etc., just aren't my thing from a creative standpoint. If I were 65 today I would be retiring with a very livable pension, though I have zero desire to retire. However, if all of vo went the way of today's vo generation, I would find other ways to fulfill my creative side.

But Dan, you do bring up an interesting POV. When I got into the business the marketing and hustle was prominent. Somewhere around the late 80s to early 90s it stopped for the most successful in union vo. Actors who booked just by walking into the studio didn't feel the need to market. Then that dried up with the advancement of the internet. This newer union generation with zero marketing experience still to this day haven't a clue how to market. And you are correct, they are dying off. Those working only union who used to be the middle class of union acting are now the elite. And statistically more work non union than union.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ConnieTerwilliger
Triple G


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3381
Location: San Diego - serving the world

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I remember the regular booth announcer on KFMB TV... the evening weather guy? Bob something?


Bob Dale was a weather guy who did the staff announcer job part-time. Don Brock was the regular day-time announcer and Doug Oliver, another weather guy was the other part-time staff announcer with Bob. When Bob went to Channel 39 in 1978, I moved from full-time director (the first female to direct news in San Diego) to part-time staff announcer (the first female staff announcer in San Diego). I would not be where I am today without Bob Dale deciding to move to NBC.[/url]
_________________
Playing for a living...
www.voiceover-talent.com
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/connieterwilliger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10481
Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My mantra has always been that if you are good at what you do, and do it full time, then it should afford you a reasonable living.


my thoughts exactly. like moe, a staff sergeant in the vo army.

and bob, i respect you immensely. you are a top-notch cat who shares valuable information & experience freely. it's one of the things i like best in the vo community.
_________________
"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Lee Gordon
A Zillion


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6843
Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Bergen wrote:
there will come a day that the non union vo community will be preaching the same thing I am.


In my opinion, there is no such thing as the "non union vo community." There is the VO community, to which most of us belong. And by "us," I mean the participants in the VO-BB, as well as members of the various Facebook and Linked-In VO groups, Faffers and WoVoists, and any others who commune, commiserate, or convene with their fellow voiceoverists. Some are in the union, and others are not. I am sure there are also people in the union who do voiceovers but are not part of the VO community. Either they are movie and TV actors who consider themselves part of the acting (as opposed to VO) community. Perhaps some grudgingly do VO to earn some cash, although they consider it beneath them. Or maybe they are lone wolves who are not part of any community at all. And that is the category into which I would place a great many, if not the majority of, non-union people who fancy themselves voiceover people. I would guess that the largest single group of people doing VO today are individuals, each on his or her own little island out there in cyberspace, not connected to or affiliated with any of their peers. Whether they are getting five dollars a spot or five thousand dollars, they are completely unaware of any of the discussions about maintaining decent rates, whether from SAG/AFTRA, or from WoVo, or from any other entity. And that's why I believe that, to a very great extent, the effort to bring some semblance of a rate structure to the "community" is tilting at windmills.
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10481
Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
individuals, each on his or her own little island out there in cyberspace, not connected to or affiliated with any of their peers


that was me in 2007 - then amy told me about this place. i was the only voiceoverist i knew, then i wasn't.
_________________
"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee Gordon wrote:
And that's why I believe that, to a very great extent, the effort to bring some semblance of a rate structure to the "community" is tilting at windmills.
Unfortunately, Lee has the measure of this. Organizing VOs is like herding cats. There are far too many who are actually relishing the fact that many "professionals" are taking a harder line on rates because they are happy to pick up the jobs for 20% of what they should pay. Even worse, there are some (so-called) coaches that promote this as an effective business plan. You can't tell a fracker that what they are doing is bad for everyone... the short-term gain blinds them to the long-term repercussions. Whenever you try and organize, people ask, "What's in it for me?" ... and if it isn't immediate access to revenue, then they don't care. This "I'm all right, Jack!" attitude will kill the industry as clients learn that they can get good... or at least serviceable talent for cents on the dollar.

The sad thing is that in a few years I'll be of "pensionable age"... I'm not really going to see the benefits of any solidarity... just the ever-dwindling status of the VO industry. Why should I work for the younger talent who will be massively impacted by the shifts caused by the current apathetic attitude? That's a rhetorical question... I do it because it's important, and I care.
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11046
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About a year or so ago I was asked by a company to suggest some voices so that they could spread the workload and offer variety to their clients. I chose the people who were able to deliver quality whilst drunk, on a Trawler in a storm off the Moray coast, juggling Orca. Hoorah!

The reward for the people who made the cut? Around a 6 figure increase in income. Not one made it to the final cut.

A few years ago I was buried under a funeral pyre of work. I was getting through it but production deadlines were creaking.

"Philip, do we have a problem?" t'was my favourite line manager who was not chasing me, she was concerned.

"I simply can't get 12 hours out of 8" I replied "Call, Yankie Bimbo (so not a made up name), she'll take up the strain and add that much needed female femininity."

I was left alone to do my thing.

Some time later over dinner with Senior Executive Head of Over allness I mentioned Yankie Bimbo, just polite chat. Madam simply rolled her eyes and changed the subject.

Less time earlier I asked a Senior Junior Vice Executive about Yankie Bimbo and her value to their clients.

"No, don't use her. Feedback from clients" she shrugged downing another pint of Tutly Wheelbarrow ale and swallowing a pickled egg whole.

The point, for anyone who may miss it. We all have varying degrees of delusions of adequacy. We desire to educate clients who really do not want to be educated by us or any organisation. "He'll/she'll do" voices are enough and one has to pile 'em high and sell'em cheap to make a living. For those who are actors or business people the former will not do.

Two problems, the biggest problems are, when required the voice fails to show up or when required the voice shows up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Bruce
Boardmeister


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 7921
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never understood the tales I’ve heard of voice actors being anything other than professional, polite and grateful, even when the client is dickish and dunderheaded. “Works well with others” is more than a grade school concept.


B
_________________
VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11046
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Real head scratcher for me too!

I once suggested a female VO I know for 3 jobs. One set of three national TV commercials, a network TV documentary and a well paid corporate. Every time I felt compelled to call the producer or director and apologise for the way she behaved

"Thank you" said the man directing the TV commercial "It's not for you to apologise. She got what she wanted THIS time but we'll never use her again!"

For me it was simply, ok Mam, three strikes and you're out.

My last HUGE international TV commercial campaign (11ft x 9ft - estimate) involved very precise direction. The ad would air in 48 countries.

Sorry, Philip" said the very frustrated Creative Director from the ad agency. "Would you mind looking at the 3rd and fourth line ..."

"You're fine" I replied "The worst thing you can ask me to do is read it again, and that's my job. Stop me when you get bored!"

No maths in Voice Over and only Prima Donnas in ballet - As is right and proper.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Lee Gordon
A Zillion


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6843
Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

todd ellis wrote:
i was the only voiceoverist i knew, then i wasn't.


This is what I'm talking about -- the thousands of pre-VOBB Todds out there. All the individuals working in a vacuum. Bish describes the difficulties of herding the voiceover cats, but those are just the ones who have been located, identified, and had a bag of Friskies™ waved in front of their noses. What I'm talking about are the thousands of solitary cats out there that are totally unreachable because nobody knows who or where they are, and who are not part of any VO community because they are completely unaware such a community exists.
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee Gordon wrote:
-- the thousands of pre-VOBB Todds out there. All the individuals working in a vacuum.

Using Todd as an example of VOs working in isolation is wonderfully appropriate, as the expression, "on your tod" refers to being alone. I shall now claim "On your Todd" as the universal descriptor for VOs working in isolation Smile

The expression comes from the rhyming slang "On your Tod Sloan" meaning alone... and as with all rhyming slang, the actual rhyme is dropped. Tod Sloan was a famous jockey born in Indiana (not a million miles from our own Todd's residence in Illinois). Sloan was the subject of George M. Cohan's song "The Yankee Doodle Boy".

See what happens on a slow Saturday!
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10481
Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

finally ... FAME!!!
_________________
"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Art
Contributor III


Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Posts: 78
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee Gordon wrote:
...All the individuals working in a vacuum...What I'm talking about are the thousands of solitary cats out there that are totally unreachable because nobody knows who or where they are, and who are not part of any VO community because they are completely unaware such a community exists.

Of those 25,000 in Los Angeles, I would bet only 10% or less are serious. Many people aspire to many things but only a few are truly motivated. Some are devastatingly talented but prefer to eat donut holes on the couch.

You only have to Google the words "voiceover" and "forum" to find communities now. If someone says they're interested in voiceover but haven't found this board, the many groups on Facebook, VO Buzz Weekly and Dan Courvoisier's blog, how serious are they?

Then there's the chance they don't WANT to be part of a community, and could care less if working for $25 brings down prices across the board. How to make them care...?
_________________
Art Howard.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
MBVOXX
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 227
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one is going to work for $25 why not just work for free?
that's ridiculous and yes, it does hurt the entire industry when people who claim to be professional talent work for absurdly low rates. They aren't professional by any standard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13016
Location: East Jesus, Maine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You only have to Google the words "voiceover" and "forum" to find communities now.


There's another VO forum?
_________________
DBCooperVO.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index -> Chat All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group