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Where do we send them now?
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Mike Harrison
M&M


Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 2029
Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Where do we send them now? Reply with quote

With the merger of Voicebank and the Acme Vacuum Cleaner Company, to where should we be referring newbies in order to listen to demos of established talent?
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Male Voice Over Talent
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Dan-O
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The major agencies still have websites with demos listed.
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ConnieTerwilliger
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Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3381
Location: San Diego - serving the world

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question. I was thinking about that today. I thought maybe Voiceover.biz might be a good place to do that.

I just selected and listened to the first couple of (randomly posted I think each time a search is done) Male Commercial demos, as the person I was going to send the link to is a newbie male voice with a less than great commercial demo on his website.

There were some really good demos too, but there were a lot of demos that showcased a not ready for prime time sound. This is not to say that these people are not working - in fact that is the criteria for being on the site, but what it does show is that there are certainly opportunities for people at all "skill" levels.

The biggest learning experience for a newbie is to start hearing the difference in these demos (the type of copy, the production value, the acting skills) so that they can apply that understanding to their own work.
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Bob Bergen
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan-O wrote:
The major agencies still have websites with demos listed.


Exactly, Dan. Also, voicecastinghub.com is working hard to pick up where Vbank left off. Give it time, as they are inundated with requests to upload demos. I think people forget that it took a very long time for a Vbank to launch, provide actor's demo, and get industry trust and respect. Vbank was rejected by professional vo for quite some time when it launched. And it really hurt the vo CD. Many buyers have gone back to the CD since VDC bought Vbank. But I predict VCH will very soon be the venue to find all agency demos.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11046
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Where do we send them now? Reply with quote

Mike Harrison wrote:
to where should we be referring newbies in order to listen to demos of established talent?


Serious answer. WE shouldn't. THEY like any other business person should do their OWN due diligence. WE ARE NOT HELPING! I know we think we are, but we're not.

We waste an incredible amount of time teaching people how to be lazy, lack resources and how NOT to walk the walk. In the context of the question, how not to listen or research.

After one of my record breaking international Saturday VO Events it was decided that we would make a website and all the Graduates would have a photo, a little description and a demo. It should've taken the team behind it about two days to set up.

I HAVE NEVER KNOWN SO MANY PEOPLE FAIL TO FOLLOW SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS AND BUGGER ABOUT IN MY LIFE. NEVER! NEVER!

Project abandoned. Cost to the VO to be included? Nothing! I was going to pick up the tab.

"Phil (banksey)" MY NAME IS PHILIP! "How do I get to be a Voice Actor?"

"Well. YOU probably don't!"

"Ooo that was harsh, dude!"

"Prove me wrong!!"

I specifically remember two of the girls who attended that New York festival of Philip. One spent most of the day faffing about with her phone and after attending every kind of vo event in the USA for the last 150 years still struggles. The other sat quietly, listened to everyone and when it came to doing a bit of mic time, after some specific direction which would've bruised a fragile ego. put in a performance prompting all of the USA to weep, the tears flooded Nevada and most of Soho. Now, that girl plods along nicely in the background making a living.

Are we helping? No, we just think we are.
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todd ellis
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Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i used to try really hard to help - email back & forth for weeks, call, send baked goods - now i have a two page letter i send out when asked "how do i do what you do?". it includes many, many great words of wisdom and loads of resources. at the very top it says "contact me after you look through this." and at the very bottom it says "contact me after you look through this." nobody ever looks through it. nobody ever contacts me.
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Bob Bergen
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I understand Philip's point regarding newbies need to take the bull by the horn when it comes to their career, I also don't believe we throw out the baby vo actor with the bath water. Having a one stop shop to direct a newbie to so they can hear their competition and what they need to live up to (or be better than) isn't coddling them. In fact, it's not just newbies who need this resource. If I'm thinking about an agent change, having all other agent's client's demos on one resource is much needed. And it's been a resource we have been accustomed to for 30 years. It will be back!

Back before the internet when I was studying, I used to call vo agents pretending to be a producer so they would send me their agency house demo reels. It always worked! I think that's the extra mile Philip is referring to. And the list of agents I got from the union. I tried the phone book, but that didn't separate vo agents from the rest. Yes, I was more driven than the average vo student.

As for Philip's students falling down on the job regarding his website offer, I can see many reasons why they failed to provide materials. First of all, perhaps not all were demo ready. Perhaps not every student was as driven as I was when I was studying. Not everyone is or should be. The cream floats to the top, and in 30 plus years of teaching I have never had an entire class that was great, let alone all ready to be promoted.

But I also don't see the value in that class website. Unless it's Juilliard, or some other prestigious arts school, no one cares where a vo actor "graduated" from. Nor will any agent or buyer find this page. Sure, an actor can use it to promote. But again, it would come across as cheeky. So, it might have been a choice rather than a failure. Not a reflection of the class, just an observation on the value of the web page.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Bergen wrote:
But I also don't see the value in that class website.


I'll explain. Every day they would be asked to provide audio, meet a deadline, not waste people's time, be effective, avoid the me me me issues and ...

Needs a little thought Laugh

The classes, there were a number, all started with a card trick. That was just me trying to be amusing and get the vo people to relax wasn't it? YOU THINK!
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Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's about self-starting. I was brought up in an environment where if you wanted to know what to do, or how to do it... you did your research, you found out... and you did it. There will always be times when questions need to be asked... but questions should come from a place of knowledge... not from laziness or an entitled attitude that makes everyone else a resource for you. Call it old-school... call it what you will, but nobody never gave me nuffin'... I had to get it myself.

My VO journey started in 06. I didn't ask direct questions... but I dug deep into what makes VO a viable career. Without asking, I managed to find a whole pile of valuable resources on-line, including a number of people who I am now proud to call friends and colleagues. I found VO-BB... but I didn't jump in with, "Hey Guys, how do I...?" (for that would have been rude). I lurked and waited until I had something useful to add to a conversation... not just take.

Did I make mistakes? ... of course I did. These were valuable learning moments that cost me time and effort... but they had a value far greater than any I could have purchased or demanded from someone else.

So... to be honest... when people ask the inevitable, "How do I do VO?" questions, I'l most often point them in a useful direction... but sometimes I'll smile sweetly and tell them to do what I did... research.

While I am full of respect for people who will teach and nurture new (or hopeful) talent with no mind to up-selling or compensation... I just find that this "free" information, more often than not, has no real value to the recipient. I have to remember that this isn't about my ego being fed by someone asking me (which it was the first couple of times it happened)... but it's about a useless time-sink that will, 95% of the time, be totally unappreciated and thrown back in my face.

I should add that I am an active participant in a VO organization's mentoring program.... but this is for people who have made a the initial effort and are on a good track... not just the email out of the blue.
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todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was brought up in an environment where if you wanted to know what to do, or how to do it... you did your research, you found out... and you did it.


i know we're getting off the original topic - but i think peter hit it on the head with this. most under 30 (and many over) have no clue how to do real research. "siri, how do i make money in voiceover?" - "ok google, how many battles in the french revolution ended in "r"?" most people are lazy, which is why they won't research, won't follow up & won't succeed. you cannot have excellence without abject failure. i have an IQ of about 51 - but i plod on because i work hard and i don't give up. with the possible exception of ryan seacrest, MANY out there who make less than $60/year in voiceover have much more talent than i do. i simply work harder. there is no brag there - it's actually quite depressing.
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Lee Gordon
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bish wrote:
I lurked and waited until I had something useful to add to a conversation.


I'm looking forward to that. Sarcastic
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todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lee, ftw.

/thread
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Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have to come here for abuse... I can go anywhere and get that! Wink

(dammit... I must remember not give Lee such easy feed lines)
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.
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Dan-O
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1636

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kills me are bloggers who build SEO by writing about VO and how to break into it, and then are shocked, SHOCKED! when beginners ask further questions. That's like leaving a two-mile slick of chum in the water and complaining about the sharks underneath the boat.

Last edited by Dan-O on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tre M.
Backstage Pass


Joined: 01 Nov 2017
Posts: 489
Location: Vegas, the desert part.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently joined a major agency and has some success with production companies...and my inbox has been inundated with "how'd you get with them" or "tell me what you did to sign on"

When I tell em I worked my ass off, worked hard, researched, cold called, sent emails, and got rejected, rejected, rejected time and time again, and i STILL love what i do....



They then say...

BUT HOW?

WTF?!?!


I just told you HOW! and WHAT as well!

I'm still learning my way around this business, and you don't stop learning and growing in this biz.

Most haven't been heard from again.
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