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How Do You Position The 416?
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Glenn Moore
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Joined: 24 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: How Do You Position The 416? Reply with quote

I have tried almost every way I can think of but I have still yet to find a way to position my (second new) Sennheiser MKH 416 shotgun mic. I still pop P's, B's and sometimes splatter S sounds even though I have tried every pop filter and windscreen I could find. Has anyone found a sweet spot and how far away from your mouth do you position it? Thanks!

Glenn
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Rob Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How close are you working It? I know people say to work it close but I have found that I still need to give it a little distance.

I also find that going slightly (just slightly) off axis seems to help.
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Bruce
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want the tip of the mic to point at your mouth. You should try it with the tip 9 to 12 inches away from your mouth. Then position it to come at you from a 45º angle (your choice of left or right) from your mouth. Then position it high enough so it points down at your mouth at a 45º angle. If you speak forward while it's up and away from you your chance of popping is dramatically reduced. All these measurements are approximate.

The trick with positioning any mic is to get the mic's zone (cone) of reception to intersect with your mouth but off angle.

If you'd like lots of ideas for pop filters do this search:

416 AND filter

I've had good luck with shotgun pop screen offered here:

http://thehookstudios.com/filters.html

B
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JasonSound



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 416 sits about 7 inches from my mouth. The tip is at nose height and angled down toward my mouth at roughly a 35-45 degree angle. Ever so slightly off to the left side.

Your pop filter should ideally be a couple inches from your mic. Give the plosives some room to dissipate. I sometimes use a double pop filter. Give about 1-2 inches of space between the two and make sure it isn't altering the sound too much. Experiment with placement.

When I started recording many years ago, we used large foam windscreen balls on the U87s. Those were pretty much the standard pop filters and worked quite well. The industry eventually gravitated toward the shield type. Cost? Looks? Sound?
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Jason Shablik
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Lee Gordon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have mine mounted from the ceiling. It is slightly to my right at about a 15 degree angle, and four inches above my mouth. Virtually impossible to pop.
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Glenn Moore
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips. Re-positioned it once again and have it pointing slightly downward and to the corner of my mouth. It does help a little. So would a Neumann M149:-) But it's 5 grand! #gearfeveragain
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nikinik7503



Joined: 06 Nov 2017
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Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: How Do You Position The 416? Reply with quote

I place my 416 a bit off axis 45 degree above and pointing my mouth.
The MOST important part is that i ALWAYS have ORIGINAL foam popfilter on, this way poping is more controlled and siblance is gone.
Regards from Bulgaria!
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Philip Banks
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard who does the audio mixes/dubs for such BBC productions as The Blue Planet has over 40 years experience as a sound guy. He summed up the MKH416 thus.

"They are only any good when you are about 20 feet away from them!"

It was said with a wry smile but the point is well made. If your room is ok then as long as your mic is in there with you it will sound fab. A Microphone is designed to pick up vibrations, an anemometer is designed to pick up (measure) wind speed. Decide what you'd like to do and then pick your equipment accordingly.

Rule 1 for mic technique - BACK OFF
Rule 2 - See rule one.


Last edited by Philip Banks on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Glenn Moore
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, I still have the original foam windsock/pop filter on both of the 416's I have. And, I agree...the farthest away from it that I can be the better. We will always have a love-hate relationship:-)
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Philip Banks
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing a line for a trailer we did an experiment. Me in my voice over "booth", standing about 4ft+ away from the mic. Needless to say Zeb and the team would never use raw audio so he recorded, got the take they wanted and he sent me back the line. I know, uniquely fascinating!

https://soundcloud.com/philip-banks/4ft
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are movie mics. They are designed to optimally record dialogue from 2 to 4 feet away. As long as the recording space has low reflection (sound bounce) it's going to sound very close. They also sound good farther away and lucky for us, close up.

I wouldn't mind owning some Sennheiser stock.

B
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Mike Harrison
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 416 is at about a 45-degree angle (maybe a bit steeper). Distance-wise, the mic is 8 inches from and pointed directly at my pie hole; the tip height is on the same plane as my eyebrows. No plosive issues at all unless I tilt my head up.

But (as with pretty much all mics), if you're using a copy stand in fairly close proximity, you must also take care that your voice doesn't reflect off the copy stand (and whatever's on it) and into the mic, which will cause phasing problems (the difference in time between when your voice directly hits the mic versus when your reflected voice hits the mic). If your copy stand is close, tilt it so that your voice is reflected, optimally, up, behind the tip of the mic.
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FinMac
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: You might want to watch this Reply with quote

Here is a video that shows Bob Bergen recording a demo using a 416.

It might give you a good idea about where to position the mic.

https://youtu.be/WG4i7faeZBA?t=3m4s
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Glenn Moore
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I need to back up even more. If only my 4x4 padded cell of a booth would expand itself a little.
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nick
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Joined: 31 Jul 2017
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob's mic is about 4-5 inches from his mouth, 45 degrees up and to the right.
I know that because that's where I cut my demo and that's where Chuck Duran wants the mic.

While I am mentioning it... I don't know what the etiquette is on promoting someone and I hope that I don't break it, but Chuck Duran of "Demos That Rock" is awesome.
Highhhhly recommended! Great to work with! Awesome Dude!
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