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OC 703 - Thicker Panels or Air Gap?
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Darcy DeLorey



Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: OC 703 - Thicker Panels or Air Gap? Reply with quote

Hello from Nova Scotia Canada,

I recently found a great deal on a used 3.5x3.5 WhisperRoom and I have been doing lots of research on "tuning" such a small and square space.

Thanks to Rob Ellis who has done an amazing job tuning his similar booth and has provided some incredible and appreciated advice. From that I just purchased 12 panels of 2x4x2" OC-703 (lucky to find here in Nova Scotia). I also have 8 LENRD "type" bass traps (not the Auralex) brand).

Researching 703 and the wrapping and framing of them lead me to a question I can't seem to find a lot of information on....

Is there any benefit to making 2" panels with a 2" air gap between the panel and the wall opposed making 4" panels without an air gap? A 4" panel with a 4" air gap would make things a bit tight in there!

Many thanks for all of the valuable information I have learned over the years from this forum!
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SteveToner
Contributor IV


Joined: 03 Oct 2016
Posts: 101
Location: LA & Sundance

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is there any benefit to making 2" panels with a 2" air gap...


The only benefit is lower cost. Full fill (i.e., 4" of OC703) is better, but 2" with a 2" air gap is almost as good. How almost? I haven't measured it myself, so I'm just reporting what those who do this stuff for a living say Smile
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Quicksilver
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand it, the air gap is quite beneficial. Or at least GIK acoustics thinks so - as almost all their panels have a air gap. Give them a call, their engineers are happy to chat and very knowledgeable.

No ties, just a happy customer of theirs.
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Darcy DeLorey



Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to you both!

It seems to be a topic with little online discussion but perhaps it is because the results are so negligible.

I shall share any pertinent findings.
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Dan-O
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1636

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a fantastic thread from 2009, featuring the late, great Mike Sommer, on how Rob Ellis tuned his booth:

http://www.vo-bb.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10032&highlight=owens+corning+703
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Darcy DeLorey



Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that Dan-O,

An excellent read with a ton of valuable information. I thought I had found all the posts on Rob's Whisper Room tuning but hadn't found that particular one.

Rob has been a much appreciated help and inspiration in this project as his booth of the same dimensions sounds amazing and I am hoping to achieve a similar sound.
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Pam
The Thirteenth Floor


Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Chicago, Il

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert nor do I play one on TV but I did put a 2" air gap behind my OC703 panels and I'm quite happy with how my room sounds. I read somewhere that it helps trap nasty waves from coming back on to your mic. Or something like that. Good luck!
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Monk
King's Row


Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1152
Location: Nestled in the Taconic Hills

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pro air gap and I vote.
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Darcy DeLorey



Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pam and Monk I appreciate your insights. Makes sense to have a 2" gap, seems it would double the effectiveness as the remaining waves would hit the wall and go through the panel again on the way back.

Any thoughts on a 2" panel with a gap vs a 4" without a gap?

Thanks!
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Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... or how about 2" of OC 703, a sheet of perforated pegboard (acting as a partial Helmholtz resonator), and then a two-inch air gap?

This discussion is in great danger of getting lost down a theoretical rat-hole. Given the limitations of the space available (i.e. a max 4" incursion into the booth)... go with the 2" OC 703 with the 2" air-gap where practical. In places where you may only have 2"... just use the OC 703. The differences are marginal at best considering the environment and usage. I use 2x4 panels with 2" OC703 and 2" air-gap and they are just fine. I went down the rat-hole and got heavily into coefficients of absorption, frequency reflections across audio bandwidths, cancelling/reinforcing waves, resonance, and all that good stuff (I'm and engineer and worked with audio signal transmission for many years).

Bottom line? Most of the theory can be forgotten because of the infinitesimal differences achieved. The simple fact that you use half the amount of OC 703 by using a 2" air-gap is far more significant (also, some will mention the out-gassing from OC 703 as a factor, so half the amount is better). Slap the basic panels in and then fine-tune with your ears. A 3.5 x 3.5 Whisper Room is going to need some TLC to make it sound non-boxy, but many have made them sound pretty good.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
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Yonie
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Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 906

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bish turned into a Gearslutz lunatic.
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Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always maintained a propensity for lunacy... especially at 9am on a Sunday before the caffeine has kicked in properly!

I always feel that it's too easy to get wrapped up in theory when trying to solve a practical problem. When tuning a small space with limitations (especially a small square one) you've got to apply basic principles and then fine-tune by ear. While these rat-holes are extremely interesting from a theoretical point-of-view, the marginal differences are totally overwhelmed by the physical limitations of the space itself. There is a general wisdom that the air-gap works well in a home or booth environment, and I agree. To examine the theoretical differences between the two alternatives necessitates deep-diving into wave theory... and life is far too short to have that discussion here (or, to be honest, on Gearslutz!)
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
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Yonie
CM


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 906

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. And as I've discovered myself, now that I'm on a booth hunt, there are ponds of crystal clear wisdom amongst seas of deep, messy information. Some of those discussions appear as a gold mine, but they really are a coal chute with the occasional gilded nugget.

What's worse, these lunatics use words like, "you need," and "you must," suggesting that an extremely complicated process is the only way to reach studio nirvana.
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Darcy DeLorey



Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All great advice, thank you so much!

Agreed that once you start researching sound absorption it becomes somewhat addictive to find the "best" option and eventually returns become very negligible.

Great idea on testing the different options. I think I will build 4" deep 2x4 wood frames which would allow me to test either 2" with a gap or 4" without a gap or even adding in pegboard. (Which has intrigued me yet again!).

I am hoping in the end with all the research I can "set it and forget it"... however I do like to tinker an awful lot. Smile
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Buff-A



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Nashville

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.
Hang a carpet section on the outside of the wood frame, whether using an air gap or not. Either way, a carpet is very absorptive, and in fact doubly-absorptive, since the waves (from inside the booth) would have to travel through the carpet layer on the way out, and on the way back (after rebounding from the wall).

It can be an inexpensive (ugly) remnant, but best if having a rubber (or foam) backing and/or somewhat of a shag.

You don't need to do any fancy math or study waveform theory...it's simply a fact that carpeting is extremely efficient at damping sound.

Panel-air-carpet. A really efficient combination. And economical.
.
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