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Thinking about a booth build. Beware - long post ahead
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Roar-duh
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Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 81
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Thinking about a booth build. Beware - long post ahead Reply with quote

So my current little teeny-tiny audiology booth just isn't cutting it. It's hard to come off as "casual, cool and relatable" when you're recording from in a space where both shoulders touch both walls, and isn't tall enough to stand in. It's time for me to build something a little bigger.

Here are the facts:

The booth needs to fit into an unfinished basement that's exactly 7' tall from the concrete floor to the floor joists. Figure in some conduit running on the bottom of the joists, and I have 6'10" to play with.

I'm 6' tall.

On the other side of the floor joists are a thin hardwood floor, and a psychotic 6 year old that runs and stomps everywhere he goes.

If possible, I'd like something that can easily disassemble if I move.

The way I see it, my best chance at success is beefing up the walls and ceiling, and trying to save some thickness in the floor. I'd imagine that there's not too vibration carrying across the concrete floor, except for possibly the washer and dryer that aren't constantly running.

I'm thinking for the ceiling and walls:
5/8" OSB
Green Glue
1/2" sound board
2.5" metal studs stuffed with recycled denim
1/2" sound board
Green Glue
5/8" OSB

For the floors, I'm thinking two layers of 5/8" OSB with green glue in between, and perhaps some thin-ish rubber feet if I run into leveling issues.

So that's a ceiling and walls 4.75" thick and a floor that's 1.125" thick, leaving me with a luxurious 5" of headroom inside (minus whatever treatment the ceiling needs).

I'm thinking that OSB will hold up better than MDF if it needs to be disassembled and moved, but I haven't really worked with MDF before. Should I consider 3/4" MDF instead? If I ever want to disassemble and reassemble this thing, drywall is out.

Can any of you think of ways to better use that 4.75" of thickness? Or have I wandered into the land of overkill and overthought?
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me start by saying that I am not a pro booth builder, but I have built a couple that have worked out OK for me.

So I would say that you need to remember that density is the name of the game. Sound board and OSB are both less dense than drywall, and the green glue is good, but if you don't have decoupled walls you are going to have some...but limited benefit.

For the floor/ceiling, you will have ZERO benefit if you attach your ceiling to the floor joists. A 6 year old stomping directly above you will slam right through anything attached to the floor joists. You have to have air space there or you won't be blocking anything. Is there a place in the basement where you don't have stomping directly overhead?

I built a booth directly beneath our tiled kitchen in my old house and had two layers of drywall, staggered stud construction and then two more layers of drywall and when someone stomped directly above I could still hear it. Not loud like in the basement, but you had little low end bump, bump, bumps in the audio.

If you can isolate the booth from all ceiling and walls of the house, you will be much better off as far as sound transfer goes. You probably don't need to worry about the floor. Just seal the walls down to the floor and build a good door jam so everything is air tight.

If you absolutely need to move it, you can try OSB and sound board, but it won't stop the stomping noise of people directly above you (in my personal estimation).

Lastly, you are going to have a boxy sounding booth if you can't put at least a few inches of treatment on the ceiling.

I taught my kids to not stomp on the main level...just takes some time and consistency Smile
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Roar-duh
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I should have been more clear. This will be a completely free-standing booth, with airspace on all sides including above.

I'm completely expecting to need some treatment on the ceiling... and with 5" to play with that would leave me with room for 2" of covered OC703 or similar inside the finished space, plus bass traps in the corners.

The space I've chosen is on the other side of a wall and door from the furnace. The only other spaces I have available that are less susceptible to footsteps are in the same room as the furnace, which I'd rather not have to fight against.

Do you think I'd get better results with MDF given the constraints of my space, or is there not really that much of a difference in density between the two?

I might be able to try staggered studs or hat channels in the walls, but I don't have the height to play with to do it in the ceiling where my biggest concern is.
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea if the MDF or OSB would be better.

I wonder if you would be better off just building walls with 5/8" drywall covered with 5/8" OSB with Green Glue between and then attach some pegs or something to make it a modular system that you caulk together and use a few L-brackets to hold everything together.

What you want to do sounds like it would be better than many prefab booths and while I doubt it would block stomping directly overhead, it would stop a lot of outside stuff just by being in the basement.

I wish I had experience with this particular style of build...but again, I'm just guessing based on previous experience.

How big do you want to make the room? The roof and walls will be mighty heavy if you ever need to move them...but that's how you are gonna block the sound Smile
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Lee Gordon
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where you're getting 5" to play with. If your space is 7' from floor to ceiling and you're allowing yourself 2" of air space above the booth, that leaves you with 6' 10". Let's say you allow yourself the bare minimum for structure, you could use 2x3 floor joists topped with 3/4" plywood for your floor (not counting carpet or rubber mat). You'll also need at least the same for the roof, but I'd go with 2x6, or at the very least, 2x4 ceiling joists so you can fill with enough insulation. Then add a minimum of 5/8" drywall. That gives you no less than 7 1/8" of structure to subtract from your 6' 10".

Now, if you go with 2x4 floor joists, a minimum of 1" for the floor decking (double up 1/2" plywood or MDF), 2x6 ceiling joists, double layer of 5/8" drywall for ceiling, you're down to around 5' 10". Knock off another inch if you use hat channel. And that does not account for any acoustic treatment or lighting you may want to attach to your ceiling. I think you'll have no choice but to work sitting in a chair.
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Roar-duh
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason,

Thoughts similar to yours had definitely crossed my mind... less expensive, and a little thinner to give me precious headroom. I'm already in a spot where my audiology booth isn't doing enough for footsteps upstairs, and that's basically a thick sheet-metal box with 1.5" of something like OC703 inside the walls and door. I was kinda figuring that if I was going to take the time to do this, more thickness and mass would be better. I'm considering building this approximately 4'x5', pending any standing wave calculators.

Lee, my 5"to play with came from me using 2x3 studs in the ceiling to gain an inch while still having room for insulation, and using no floor joists - just decking. It's tough to prioritize... I'd rather do everything possible to have room to stand, and I don't have a noise problem from the floor.
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Roar-duh
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason, you've actually got me thinking about your simpler plan pretty seriously. After looking at some photos and videos, your idea is pretty much exactly how most of the common pre-fab booths are made.

If I sandwich two layers of 5/8 drywall inbetween two layers of 5/8 OSB, with green glue in one of the layers, I'll wind up with 2.5" wall thickness. However, that thickness will be pure density as opposed to a cavity filled with insulation.

In comparison, my current audiology booth is 2" thick, but that thickness is just rigid fiberglass insulation inbetween 2 layers of sheet metal... far less dense.

So... far less time consuming, less expensive, easier to disassemble and still pretty dense. I think I'll be doing this sooner rather than later.
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yarg28
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So my experience with booth building is that you do not want to over think it. Honestly, people get all wrapped up in things that seem "intuitive in the one physical science that is the LEAST intuitive. There is a reason that Whisperrooms are successful; they keep it simple.

A few things to think about.

Make sure that you can actually transport and assemble the booth in your space, including headroom for putting top on.

You want your joints to have some overlapping element to terminate any chance of flanking and then cram all the edges of those overlapping segments, and every other crack inside and outside of your booth with green glue sealant.

Outside of pure mass, your door seal is the most critical element to your build. It is the weakest link in the system. If you dont do a good job customizing and fitting your stop/jambs to fit your door, it wont matter how dense or how much treatment you have. Sound will flank. That doesnt mean get complex. Quite the opposite actually. I have a hollow core door on a custom set of stops and it is rock solid. $40 of material. I dont even have a gasket of any kind.

Drywall is the most dense and least expensive material for a build, then MDF and honestly, I think everything else is junk.
Drywall is a nuisance, you have to do extra finishing, it's less portable, and there is some extra engineering that goes with assembling it.
MDF is expensive but other than the weight of moving it, it is very easy to work with. My booth is 3/4" mdf and I'm thrilled with it.

If I had a chance to build it over again or if my current booth wasnt honestly pretty perfect, I'd probably stack 1/4" mdf on top of 3/4" mfd with green glue between. That way you get more density and some frequency coverage from two different thicknesses of material. It would also be really easy to do.

You are going to need a lot of panels in that booth and the ceiling is critical. Know that the walls start closing in on you quickly.

If you can stomach it, go without a freakin window. Windows are the devil.

If you can do it, go without a vent. You can always add it later. I have been using my booth for over a year and have never needed a vent. Again, complexity and weakness added to design. I record for an hour or more at a time. I just reach back and crack the door for 3 seconds if I need to but mostly I believe recording for more than an hour straight isnt great.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something and maybe you completed the project. Happy to help if you have any questions.

gary
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Roar-duh
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Gary... I haven't started construction yet, I'm still in the acquisition and "carefully tweak the budget to avoid divorce" stage. Your post makes me feel like I'm heading in the right direction... you're hitting on all of the things that I've been figuring out over the past week or two.

Each wall will be two layers of 5/8 OSB, framed with a 2x3 turned sideways for a 1.5" cavity inside. Inside of that cavity will be one layer of 1/2" soundboard sandwiched by two layers of 1/2" drywall. I was fortunate enough to score an unopened 5 gallon pail of Green Glue and a case of Green Glue sealant for $140 off of Craigslist, so that gives me enough to do 2 layers of GG inside the wall (I'm thinking between the OSB and drywall on both sides), and GG sealant around the inner framing of all panels.

Vocalbooth.com actually lists their wall construction in their FAQ, and it looks like I'll be close to their Platinum in terms of construction:

Quote:
VocalBooths are fully enclosed rooms which include wall, floor and ceiling panels. Our main components are ¾” OSB with exterior 1/8″ acoustic fabric. Depending on which series you go with the interior will differ. The Silver Series wall construction is 1/8″ acoustic fabric, ¾” OSB and 2″ acoustic foam. The Gold Series is 1/8″ acoustic fabric, ¾” OSB, ½” sound board and 2″ acoustic foam. The double-wall designed Platinum Series is 1/8″ acoustic fabric, ¾” OSB, ½” sound board, 2″ acoustic foam, ¾” OSB and 1/8″ acoustic fabric. Our Diamond Series is available in either our Gold or Platinum Series construction.


I've already tweaked my measurements to create overlapping joints all around. I'm not going to have enough height to allow the use of a pre-hung conventional door, so I'm simply going to make my own door with the same construction as the walls, hung on barn hinges, with carpeted overlapping stops all the way around. A window would be nice, but I don't want the added engineering headaches and expense that go along with it.

I shaved a little height off of my measurements to ensure that I can drop the ceiling into place. I still have 76 1/4" interior height, so I have room to put a 2" panel of Roxul or OC703 on the ceiling and still be able to stand comfortably. A little closer than I'd care for, but moving upstairs isn't an option and jacking up the house is out of the budget. Gasp

I am planning on doing a vent using an AC Infinity home theater cabinet fan in a box on the outside of the booth, with insulated flex-duct running inside. The box will be carpeted, the outside of the booth will be carpeted, and I'll likely use GG sealant when mounting the fan to the box, so whatever noise there may be won't come from vibration.

I'll probably start construction in about 2 weeks, and there will be plenty of photos when it's finished! Smile
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Last edited by Roar-duh on Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:22 am; edited 2 times in total
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Roar-duh
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit: technical difficulties
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yarg28
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do yourself a favor and be sure that the prehung door that you buy does NOT have the stop around the jambs integrated. Lots of prehung doors have that "feature" now and it nullifies your ability to tear that 3/8" piece of junk stop off and add your own custom fit 3/4" stop. You definitely want a 3/4" stop that you adjust to fit your door all the way around, even at the bottom. I can send some images of mine and describe how to install it. It's really simple if you have any DIY skills at all.
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yarg28
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just sent you a private message to a quick video that I did a while back showing custom door stops.
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AlanTaylor
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me start by saying I know very, very little about construction materials and could not build a decent booth. (That's why I bought a Whisperroom.) But, I would think MDF (maybe even two layers glued together) would be better than OSB. In fact, isn't that what Whisperroom uses?
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Yonie
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlanTaylor wrote:
Let me start by saying I know very, very little about construction materials and could not build a decent booth. (That's why I bought a Whisperroom.) But, I would think MDF (maybe even two layers glued together) would be better than OSB. In fact, isn't that what Whisperroom uses?


But then if you ask the lunatics over at Gearslutz, Whisperroom isn't all it's cracked up to be-- the key word is lunatics.

Someone said something that has stuck with me in my own journey: it doesn't have to be all that complicated.

Many materials are good fits, but some fit better than others depending on the circumstances.
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JohnV
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw this... If you haven;t started yet, I HIGHLY reccomend two things:

Gervais's book on building home studio

a lot of time spent at JOHN SAYERS' studio design forum where any and every mistake you are about to commit, DOZENS of folks have already done (or avoided in public !) for all to learn from. THe staff there on the forums (forae?) are VERY solid on listening to your ideas and then steering you in teh right direction so your money isn;t wasted.

Also there was a small article in a recent SOUND ON SOUND issue where a small vocal booth was PROPERLY fit into a small area mush like what you describe.
ahh... here...
https://youtu.be/HdEYNdzi4kw
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