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VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
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HeatherMasters Contributore Level V
Joined: 03 Sep 2015 Posts: 158 Location: Alaska
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: Invoice preferences: To prepay, or Not to prepay... |
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So I searched the forum , which of course led to me finding tons of brilliant threads and losing myself for a good half hour before remembering what I was supposed to be looking for...and then repeating the pattern.
A recent post by someone here on the forum about getting screwed by a client has got me rethinking my invoice practice. It seems common to request either partial or full payment up front, but I haven't been able to bring myself to do this yet. It just feels cold and untrusting (which perhaps is the unfortunate necessity). So far, I have been able to work with great people who promptly pay upon invoicing them, but I just wonder if I'm setting myself up to be taken advantage of?
So far, my clients have been mostly well known companies, and I figure, they'll pay because they want a good reputation out there...
I am a Pollyanna sort of person, which sometimes gets me into trouble, so I'm interested in how you folks go about these issues?
And if you do require partial or full upfront payment, how do you word it so you don't sound like a jerk? _________________ Heather
www.heathermastersvo.com |
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Scott Pollak The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 1903 Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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In a word, I don't. For the most part it's highly unprofessional. If you do that to most corporations they will drop you like a hot potato and go find somebody else because that's not the way corporations work. And I speak from experience, having worked inside a major telecommunications corporation for 11 years. On a few projects if the project is of a prolonged duration and large enough billing to merit it, I will require partial prepayment upfront. But for the most part it's more professional to do the job, make sure the client is satisfied, submit the invoice, and then sit back and expect the normal payment period of 30 to 60 days. We're supposed to be professionals. We need to act like it. Even the union folks don't get paid up front. _________________ Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
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richvoice Been Here Awhile
Joined: 12 Aug 2008 Posts: 217 Location: Tucson, AZ
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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I did a job for a local studio back in October of last year. It took me a few weeks to get my act together and send them an invoice (much personal turmoil happening during that time). I just got paid a couple of weeks ago, after multiple invoice emails, and a phone call.
My plan, in general, is to keep being willing to do the work and then send an invoice. For this particular client, if they ever call me back I'll tell them I'll be happy to work with them, but I'll require payment up front.
I guess my thinking is that I'll keep assuming that clients are trustworthy unless I see otherwise; as soon as I do, payment up front. _________________ Cheers,
Rich
http://www.richvoiceproductions.com
@RichMillerVO |
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Scott Pollak The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 1903 Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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richvoice wrote: | I guess my thinking is that I'll keep assuming that clients are trustworthy unless I see otherwise; as soon as I do, payment up front. |
EXACTLY! The only client, out of hundreds I've had over the last several years, that I now require prepayment from, is a client in India that was a very good client for many years. However over the last few years they began to develop the pattern of waiting six or eight months to pay me. No more. If they want me to work for them, they must prepay me. Fortunately I haven't heard a peep out of them in about 6 months, and I'm fine with that. I have clients who will pay me same day, and clients that I may have to wait three or four months on. It all evens out, it's all part of the business. It is the way it is. _________________ Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
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Scott Pollak The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 1903 Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Invoice preferences: To prepay, or Not to prepay... |
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HeatherMasters wrote: | It seems common to request either partial or full payment up front... |
And, Heather, as I am sure is obvious by now, I disagree with this statement. I don't think it's common at all. _________________ Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
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HeatherMasters Contributore Level V
Joined: 03 Sep 2015 Posts: 158 Location: Alaska
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you so much for your responses. I'm so glad I asked because it's such a relief to know I'm not expected to operate that way. I just hate the idea of coming into the situation with that kind of suspicion.
Everything you both said really meshed with how I want to do business. The business side of things is such a new endeavor for me, and I still feel like such a noob operating that side. I got a wakeup call when I visited NYC and casually smiled at a man on the subway. I got the finger. When I thought to myself, "surely he misunderstood. I'll try again" and smiled again (remember, I've got that Pollyanna complex), this time brimming with cheer and sincerity, I got the double finger. I say that just to illustrate that I'm not the most perceptive when it comes to how the world works. I live in my own optimistic world, and am consistently surprised when things don't line up with that. And, while I don't want to lose who I am, I do want to learn to be smart and understand how to operate in the business world.
Thanks guys for helping me work through this, but I warn you, you've done nothing to wake me up to the cold harsh world, but rather, just reinforced my notions of good, honest people out there.
_________________ Heather
www.heathermastersvo.com |
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Lance Blair M&M
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2279 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:53 am Post subject: |
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We just have to roll with whatever hands our clients deal us and not worry too much. Just keep up with them when they're late. I keep an invoice folder for each month and a subfolder of payments received on my desktop (and backed up to a hard drive and the cloud)! My invoice numbers are the first three letters of the clients' name (or a good abbreviation of it) and then the date of issuance, such as ABC031016. That makes it easy to track them in my files, bank accounts, PayPal. etc. I also reference that code in Email titles as well as in the message, instead of saying generically "here is the invoice".
I've had:
Clients who are always late but always pay.
Clients who are always on time but suddenly they're going out of business and they won't even return your calls.
Clients who promise to pay 30, 45, or 60 days and are good to their word.
Clients who regularly pay before they contact me...that can be trickier!
Clients who can't get their act together for over a year but still pay.
I usually get one job a year that doesn't ever pay, and just budget for that in advance. Last year was a record for clients that didn't pay (5!) but they weren't big jobs (and all non-broadcast); plus I had my best year yet so I didn't sweat it. Just keep swimming! Only when a job is dealing with hefty sums would I consider contacting collection agencies and lawyers. _________________ Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too! |
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Yonie CM
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 Posts: 906
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:56 am Post subject: |
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There are few asshats. There are many brain demons. |
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juliaknippen Club 300
Joined: 25 Nov 2012 Posts: 348 Location: NYC
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:29 am Post subject: |
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The fellow on the subway in NYC was probably crazy. Any sane person would have smiled back at you or ignored you completely. Never stop smiling at people! _________________ www.juliaknippen.com
Her Voice Will Grow on You |
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todd ellis A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 10495 Location: little egypt
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | We just have to roll with whatever hands our clients deal us and not worry too much. |
i couldn't disagree with this more. we are professional - capable business people & should not simply roll over, expose out vitals & wait.
we are in the business of communicating --- we need to COMMUNICATE.
for small jobs (less than $1,000) i usually don't worry about it - but for larger jobs i say to a new client, "typically i require 50% payment to start the project with the remainder due upon delivery --- how does that sound to you?" most of the time they say "ok" - or perhaps - "sure". sometimes they let me know that, personally, they would love to - but they are net 30 payers only - or 60 - or 90 in some cases. i have never let it stop me from working with a client - but simply asking the question, more times than not ... works.
jmho - ymmv. _________________ "i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
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Philip Banks Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11049 Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:35 am Post subject: |
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My invoice terms - "While you've got it I can't spend it and that is NOT a bad thing" |
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Scott Pollak The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 1903 Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Like Todd, if it's a biggie, I'll respectfully request 50% to get started, balance due upon project completion, but that's usually for jobs of $3k or more.
I log each job as it comes in, into Excel, with a column for the date it came in, client's name, job name or type, budget.
Then as I invoice it, I add a column for the date it's invoiced and I highlight the whole line in yellow to show it's pending payment. Jobs still to be invoiced aren't highlighted at all. Once payment is received, I enter the date payment is received and highlight the entire line in green, showing it's good.
It's very easy to scan over the excel file and see the ones in yellow (invoiced out). I can look back to the ones that are starting to get a bit 'ripe' and will often then follow up with a very nice, professional query asking if payment is on its way. If we start getting past 90 days, then my messages get a bit more direct. Fortunately this is a rare occurrence. And, like Lance, I think I typically get maybe one (at most) non-payer in the course of a year. Usually they've gone belly up or are overseas. _________________ Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
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Mike Harrison M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 2029 Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Excellent thread!
Typically, how long after the 30-day period (taking into account any postal lags) before a reminder goes out?
On another note, there is a client right now who, earlier this month, asked if I would record additional material to a script originally recorded a month earlier and hold the invoice until a new job due to come in at the end of the month. I was advised not to delay invoicing, so I didn't. Here we are at the end of the month and there's been no word about that new job. Payment for the additional material is due in several days. This client (a small video company) has been considerably late paying before and his drag-on excuses are pretty lame. I'm considering whether he is one client I might do without. _________________ Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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Scott Pollak The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 1903 Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Mike Harrison wrote: |
Typically, how long after the 30-day period (taking into account any postal lags) before a reminder goes out? |
Mike, for me; it depends.
Obviously if it's a regular client that I KNOW will pay, but they typically take longer, I don't say a word.
But, say it's a new client; then anywhere from maybe 30-45 days I'll send a short note to the effect of:
"Hi, there! I just wanted to touch base to see how things went with the project and to thank you again for choosing my voice. Also, would you be kind enough to let me know if the check has gone out in the mail, and, if not, when I can expect it? Thanks so much!" _________________ Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
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Mike Harrison M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 2029 Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Excellent.
Thanks so much, Scott! _________________ Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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