VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

melissa eX · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject:

I'm only halfway through this thread and there are multiple things I'd like to chime in on. Time constraints at the moment (getting ready for my niece's sweet 16 party!) but as soon as I get a chance will be back!
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Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject:

Kristin Lennox · Flight Attendant Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Posts: 858

Bob Bergen · CM Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 939

Frank F · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject:

We have passed the point of what this thread was written for long ago. so I offer a suggestion to start a new thread or stop the bantering.

This is a long hard fought battle and Bob is NOT the bad guy, neither is Melissa, or DB. Or is Todd, or myself for that matter. I have no skin in this game. I was a union-ite for many years and because they kept failing me miserably in my state, I have given it up for lent.

Today my income is at least 250% of most union-ites, even the elitists. I pay my own taxes, my own health benefits, my own retirement benefits, etc. I am now - a self-unemployed Independent Contractor. I am a small business owner. And I like it this way. I take time off to drive my airplanes and gyro-copter or travel when and where I want, and I do not regret a moment of this new life.

Like Bob B. I see both sides and for me - I do not like what I see (I am equal opportunity person, I dislike both sides).

Getting back to the subject, it has been stated: "to make a wise choice and not make the choice of union or non-union right now". To this I agree.

Looking for a new thread, soon.

F2
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ConnieTerwilliger · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject:

Seems like the perfect place for it! Keep it all in one place for easy access.

I have to admit that I never had to wait tables to pay my bills because I had a staff job at a union TV station - plus commercials and on-camera spokes work. I worked enough hours to be vested and the outside work I did was union.

But then I took a job with a defense contractor - spending nearly a decade as a producer/writer and on and off-camera spokesperson in a video production department, When I went back out as a free-lancer and wanted to get back into the performing side of things, all of the union shops had de-certified, so I had no one to work for under union contracts. I went fi-core in order to continue to work.

I was an adult with a mortgage and responsibilities, I simply couldn't work 3 jobs and hold out for the very very few opportunities to do union work.

My early experience with the union was great, but then it wasn't.

Nothing stays the same - the leaders need to try to find the things that still make sense in today's reality, and try not to force the future into the past.
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Kristin Lennox · Flight Attendant Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Posts: 858

Deirdre · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject:

Frank, you're out of line. It's not about you.
This thread is perfectly fine and is organic.
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Frank F · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject:

So be it. It is not about me.

What the issue being discussed is is not about should someone join the union now or wait, but about how to fix the union.

To fix the union is an issue bigger than any or all of us. We can add our thoughts and opinions but arguing the idioms here or on any one forum is not going to fix the unions antiquated ways. Create a plan which can be distributed to thousands upon thousands of union and non-union VO talent. Act upon the plan by showing solidarity to the unions opposition. And create change NOW.

"Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." unkown

Bye

F2
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Bish · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject:

I've stayed out of this thread so far because I was captivated by the intelligent discussion that was unfolding... and didn't want to inject my own perspective. Now, as the very value of the thread had been questioned, I feel I should throw my opinion in (for what it's worth).

I am a latecomer to the game. My first forays into the VO world were with P2P sites and the whole world of internet accessibility. My career is less than ten years old, but I have found myself in the wonderful position of being able to pay the mortgage and put food on the table from full-time VO work (and I live in NY!) I am both blessed and grateful as I understand this puts me in the top single digit percentage of VOs that this status embraces. I have not accomplished this on my own... I have been mentored and supported by many colleagues both here and elsewhere.

My own personal political views set union membership as an option to aspire to. Maybe I'm "old school" in this respect, but I truly believed that union membership was a key to opening doors to higher paying gigs and hitherto untold riches. OK, it didn't quite work out that way... the union opportunities are certainly there as I'm a NY VO... but they have yet to compensate for the loss of income due to my dumping (with no regrets) the P2P sites and other non-convertible work. It's hard, and sometimes I question my decision... but I honestly believe that the union can be made to understand (and accommodate) the needs of a working VO regardless of their geographical location.

This is not an easy path (as Bob has so eloquently articulated). It is fraught with frustrations and pigheadedness on the part of the union who just don't get it (or choose not to get it). For the moment, I have chosen to try to work within the system to try and elevate the standing (and understanding) of VOs within the union. This may be a total waste of effort, but for the moment, I see it as worth pursuing. Education is needed on all sides... union, VOs, clients, newcomers & established talents.

"To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war" may be aphoristic, but I think the situation can actually be turned around if the union can embrace the 21st century and all that entails. The alternative is to roll-over and just hand everything over to "clearing houses" such as Voices who will continue the drive to commoditization of the VO market... where everyone loses.
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Philip Banks · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:13 am Post subject:

Actor - Out of work for months gets a job for one day on a movie. Arrives late, complains about everything, screws the leading lady, leaves early.

Businessman - Sells your hard work for 10x what he paid for it, tells you that you are valuable then out sources to a Senegalese home for sick children and pays them in rice and fish.

Union Leader - Sees what's happening in the lives of the above and holds a meeting to discuss funding workshops on the Iranian Double Pause by selling cup cakes in Oregon.

The Lord's Prayer (line 6) - "Give us this day our daily bread". You do not have to be a Christian to be that focused.

Lee Gordon · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 2:03 am Post subject:

Bob Bergen · CM Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 939

There was a time, not that long ago, that this was indeed a true and fair assessment. Before the Internet, vo was primarily in the larger markets. There was really very little non Union vo work. Very few non Union opportunities. The buyers, the networks, the studios, they wanted the best. The wanted professional vo actors. Statistically, this meant Union. Union vo actors were a huge notch ahead of non Union, in experience and skills. Today, things are drastically different, as you all know.

And as much as I agree that the union needs to address some issues and face much needed change and adjustments, I don't believe that a Union whose membership is talent/performance based can have any knd of competency requirements. Acting and talent is subjective. I've seen Oscar winners whom I cannot believe got a Union card, let alone cast in that film. But that's just my 2 cents. Others obviously loved this talent.

Having that Union card meant/means someone took a chance and hired you for a professional acting gig. Not just a vo gig, an acting gig. Vo is our game. But the union covers many, many acting genres. If that gig that got you your Union card was from a guest star role on Big Bang Theory, that whole experience holds weight. For me, that first gig was a role in a major network animated series. That had clout, and helped me secure my first agent, who happened to be the top vo agent in LA.

A Union card is just one step in the equation that sets you apart from others. There are many of these steps in an actor's career that gets one noticed or more desirable over another:
- Training with impressive acting coaches or a grad from a prestigious acting school like Juliard or Yale Drama School
- a Union card
- an A list agent
- an Emmy, Oscar, or Tony nomination....or win!

Each layer or step separates you from your peers with lesser accomplishments.

Vo is a very different animal. It can be pursued on a different level. This is the big difference today. And because we are now in our second decade of online vo, talent has spread outside the major markets. The lines that separated the talented professional from the wannabe are getting more blurred. Buyers and talent have conditioned each other very successfully.

But the bottom line remains the same. Recieving Union benefits from vo work is better than not receiving em. What needs to be accomplished is a way for actors to receive Union benefits while being able to retain their career and repeat buyers. And, we need to create a business model where the hiring of Union talent is as easy and fast as it is to hire non Union. A working non Union vo actor needs to be heard and feel inclusive, rather than the bastard child. The union needs to face and accept the realities of the vo industry technologically today. They need to really understand that the major markets are not the only game in town. When they were, the majority of the work was Union. Today, technology has allowed for major corporations to reach out to talented non Union actors in a country where half the states are right to work.

Deirdre · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:33 am Post subject:

I cannot (at this juncture) picture the Union Suits taking time to examine the labor laws that require all parties to view each VO gig as an episode of employment.

This is the crux of the matter, as far as I can see. All this shit is a matter of course in the Shining-City world of signatory agents., but I'd wager that the "powers that be" don't even know these laws exist.
The Union Mounted Heads need to understand the US Labor Laws that define union rules in order for there to be honest discourse.
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