VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

colinsz1

I recently had a voice evaluation from suchavoice, then when I was told about the demo production, I was solicited to these very expensive all-inclusive plans of $4,000 plus. Are voice over mills like this worth your time or should you stay away?

Philip Banks · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:36 am Post subject:

It is possible to tell within 10 minutes whether someone is likely to be able to do VO work, most can't. This company has a selection process able to identify the ability to do VO work so finely tuned that no one fails selection.

It is a business and the business is to get people to buy their training and demo package for $4,000. It does very well and the people who work for it make a nice living. Most people who emerge out of the end of the production line do not make a nice living from VO work. "Graduates" receive value for their $4,000 but then either give up or go on to buy something else.

Being able to do VO work is an intuitive skill that no one is able to teach, no one. There are people who can make you better, help you find "you" and give you the business or acting skills but that's about it.

Best voice evaluation.

This has either happened to you or it hasn't.

Social gathering. You're telling a story, a joke or simply explaining something to a couple of people. They're listening attentively. You say what you have to say and realise your glass is empty so excuse yourself and head for the bottle of Chablis with your name on it.

The calling of a chilled, crisp, citrus Burgundy doesn't distract you from the fact that a room full of people is largely silent because everyone was listening to you.

Last two paragraphs are the secret to VO success. Paypal $4,000 to banksey@talk21.com

Mike Harrison · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:52 am Post subject:

What Philip said. All of it.

Demo mills are the Pied Pipers of voice-over. They tell you what you want to hear. And, what those wanting to "break into" voice-over want to hear is, "Oh, yes. You definitely have potential. You could be on the road to a six-figure income by doing something you do every day. And that is: talking. Are you ready to begin?" Like the stereotypical plaid-wearing used car salesman, people will tell you anything to get your money.

I know, first-hand. I was a demo producer for one such Piper before recognizing the tune they were playing and bowing out.

After a handful of classes, maybe a weekend "camp" held at a resort hotel, a seminar that includes a visit to "an actual recording studio" (oooh, eye candy)... and $4000, many (perhaps most) wanna-bes are left with a demo which, rather than showcasing their prowess (it really is a lot more than just talking and having a nice voice), buries their less-than stellar – and quite often misdirected – attempts in a wash of production meant to distract or outright fool the listener.

The experienced listener – established voice-over agents, casting directors, and end-user clients who've hired voice talent (production studios, etc.) – instead hears, "STAY AWAY."

Once a demo like that gets around, it becomes much tougher for its owner to later make the good impression that should've been first. Not necessarily impossible, but starting and maintaining a business is hard enough as it is without that additional burden.

Newcomers to voice-over (and other forms of performance art) require thick skin because they need to hear things they don't want to hear... and the tenacity to keep going after they've heard it.

Don't be lulled by the tune of the voice-over Pied Piper.
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Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

Bish · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:40 am Post subject:

Colin, you have just successfully cleared the first hurdle in assessing the true worth of these places. You are asking the question. I would be far more benevolent towards these places if there were any tales (even apocryphal) about a demo mill rejecting an applicant.

Philip's comment about it being an innate ability (that may be honed by a good coach or mentor) is pretty much spot-on. As much as we decry the stories about hopefuls who say "They tell me I've got a good voice" it is, in fact, a good place to start... the ability to string words together in an appealing way should not be underestimated or decried... it is a solid foundation. Turning your innate erudite eloquence into a marketable commodity... now that's the trick.

Mike has seen this from the inside... and from what he's said here (and elsewhere) I suspect he still has to buy extra-strength Listerine to get the bad taste out of his mouth.

... and, let's face it... $4K is a large wedge of folding (it's a u87 and change!!!). I appreciate that not everyone can (or should) produce their own demos... but if you have some disposable income to spare/invest... get some independent appraisal of your voice, work one-on-one with a reputable coach, and then get a demo made when you're ready.
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Scott Pollak · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:30 am Post subject:

Mike's not the only one who has seen this from the inside. Ashamedly so have I.

Colin, if you want to e-mail me privately, I'll share my experiences with you:
scott@voicebyscott.com

And generally speaking, the answer to your question is: NO.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

Bailey · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:09 am Post subject:

A close relative once boasted that he had "disposable income". The economy has given him a reality check and abated any futher chatter.
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todd ellis · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:24 am Post subject:

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melissa eX · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:26 am Post subject:

What everyone else here has said.

It takes a long time to become really successful at voiceover. For the most part that's because we first have to learn to get out of our own way (and for most of us that isn't learned in a couple weeks - or months - of classes) - and how to connect with the copy in our own way, so that what we can bring to a job is believable and unique. It's even more important now than it ever was before because people - and clients - flee at the slightest hint of insincerity. There was a time when mediocre was acceptable - when producers and talent had to be in the same physical space and there wasn't a world of people to choose from. But now with demo mills churning out tens of thousands of mediocre talent and, as Mike said, basically creating the Pied-Piperism of VO, you need to be good and you need to stand out. For that you need to work with someone who can help you access who you are, and bring your point of view to the read.

Demo mills do the opposite. They use tricks - and may teach you tricks - that are intended to cover up your lack of connection to the work, that are supposed to make you sound as though you believe what you're reading and fool the listener into thinking you're sincere.

The problem is the listener is rarely fooled.

It's like the difference between processed bread and real bread. There's a reason a food like bread - when it's processed - has so much (and many different types of) sugar in it. Sugar covers up the chemicals loaded up into the bread (like the one used as a dough conditioner that's also used in yoga mats) and it disguises the lack of nutrients. It fools you by making it palatable but ultimately the bread is bland and unsatisfying. Extra yeast is also added to make it rise faster. That may be more profitable - you can churn out more loaves - but it doesn't allow the flavor to fully develop and too much yeast can make bread collapse. But real bread has very few ingredients, has nutrients and is substantial. It's allowed to rise at the pace it should in order to bring out the full flavor and texture. And it's much more satisfying. There's no need to add a lot of stuff and there's nothing to cover up - it's real and it's good.

That might be a weird analogy but that's the way I see the demo mills. They're not interested in nurturing your talent and in helping you rise to where you need to be by helping you learn to connect in your own way - to yourself and the copy - at the pace and with the method that works for you. They're only interested in getting would-be talent to rise just to the point where - with their tricks (chemicals) - they can slap on a lot of production (sugar) to hide the fact that the reads themselves are empty, insubstantial, unsatisfying and flat. (and there's a reason why I use "your" in the first part of this paragraph and not in the second - because they're not interested in "you" only in wallets with a dream.)

Finding the right person/people to train with is important. And finding the right person to produce a demo when you're ready for one is important. They're not necessarily the same - although in a very few instances they can be. You may well spend $4000 or more but it'll be money spent on bringing out the best you - rather than money spent to make you sound like everyone else and get lost in the crowd. And, again as Mike pointed out, a demo like that can make it harder for agents and casting directors to listen to you again anytime soon. It can set you back years. And they remember everyone.

DougVox · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:52 am Post subject:

What Philip said.

And what Mike said.

And what Bish said.

And Scott.

And Bailey.

And todd.

And Melissa.

And Doug.
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Scott Pollak · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:28 am Post subject:

Melissa, there have been a lot of great analogies about v/o posted on this site over the years (we really need to collaborate all of them into one thread and, no, I'm not volunteering), but this ranks right near the top, if not AT the top.

It's not a weird analogy. It's spot-on.

You got one thing wrong though.

Voiceover mills are only interested in one thing: Making money off of people's dreams.

Period. Trust me, I know. Embarrassed

_________________
Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

Lee Gordon · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:42 am Post subject:

ccpetersen · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject:

To paraphrase a saying I heard in geometry class, "There is no royal road to voiceover." Meaning, hard work to become a talented professional is not something you can replace by buying into a sleaze mill.

What everybody else said: +5
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ricevoice · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject:

$4000 will get you a LOT of coaching/evaluation from a top-tier v-o coach like Nancy Wolfson (my fave, but there are several other recommended coaches if you search the archives here), and you're not dropping all that coin up front either.

btw, you can find Nancy here: http://braintracksaudio.com/
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Philip Banks · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject:

Or as she's known in the business the future Mrs Banks*

*I'm going to get calls and emails about that

Bob Bergen · CM Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 939

This sort of business model isn't new. It's just more widespread due to the Internet.

When I was studying vo in the late 70s there were those 6 week workshops where each student leaves with a demo. If everyone was demo ready after one 6 week class everyone would work. There are still these types of classes today, but not as many. More fall prey to the type of business in question here. Every once in a while someone will pass on taking my classes because I don't offer demos at the end or promises of work.