VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

Philip Banks · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:41 am Post subject: Soapboxing

A few days ago I posted something on a ClinkTin VO discussion page.

Subject - They're going to pay me HOW MUCH?

"2013 is now but a shadow full of bitter sweet memories, retained calories, love lost and promises not kept. Look back and rejoice at the best paid VO job you did. Go on, spill the beans."

As you would expect - Tumbleweed. Lovely! Here is the follow up.

"Here's the point of this topic. I'm more interested in the lack of response than a number.

Most VO people fear being "Trumped" by another VO or judged in some way. Confront that demon today as he stands between you and what life has to offer you. Did your best paying voice job pay you $50 or $50,000? Celebrate! This job, was it your 1st or your 2001st? Celebrate!

You're ashamed of being open and honest in front of your competition. Here and in most other places you will not find anyone in competition with you. You are selling your unique skills - Google UNIQUE.

Something to think about.

Eros = I love you because you're beautiful.
Philos = You're beautiful because I love you

If you ever met someone with a PhD in Voice Over work no matter how much they earned, no matter how much their best paying job of 2013 paid they'd still be richer than you in every single way."

Right, I'm off to Speakers Corner to share my thoughts on "21st century economics - The new slight of hand"

Scott Pollak · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:43 am Post subject:

It's always touchy when one brings the topic of money into ANY conversation, be it v/o, personal life, tithing.... whatever.

In the past I would post an annual ANONYMOUS poll on Julie's old forum so people could click a box to show what they made the previous year and you'd see the resultant bar graph. e.g.: 6% made over $100k, 18% made between $80-$100k, and so on. But it was anonymous and no one knew who made what. It simply gave you a snapshot of what percentage of people in our industry were making what amount.

A few months ago I attended the funeral of a very, very close friend of mine. He died way too early, at age 56, of brain cancer. Great guy. Family man, married for something like 35 years, 2 great grown kids, and I felt this huge sense of loss in my life. But sadly the primary thing I remember about my friend is how money seemed to be the primary focus of his life. He was VERY successful. We started out in the same job together in the mid 1970's and he was a superstar. Made tremendous money, and I always heard about it. A lot. He didn't rub it in my face, but I ALWAYS knew how well off he was. And now he's gone, and left behind all that money. And while I love and miss him, my wife and I agree that that aspect of his life is the one that most sticks out in our minds.

I don't like sharing personal 'wins' in terms of dollars. It's irrelevant because a huge win for me - dollar wise - may be a pittance to another person, so really, what does it mean?

I don't mind sharing that 2013 continued a trend for me, financially, that is now in it's 10th consecutive year: my best year yet. And I hope that continues in 2014.

But I posted on Facebook that my goals for 2014 AREN'T to make more money. It is to enjoy life more. Spend more quality time with my family. Be healthier. Make more free time. I think things like that are worth celebrating.

Who does the more valuable job? The athlete who earns $10 million a year, or the cop who earns $50k? You see, the dollar figures don't really indicate 'worth'.

Instead, how about if we talk about the most gratifying job(s) we landed last year? For me, it was becoming a reader for Umano. The pay? Utterly miserable; poverty wages. But every single day when I read, I learn something fascinating, and so far, having narrated 136 clips, I've had over 190,000 listens and a LOT of comments from readers thanking me for the 'great narration'. To me, that is gold.

So, speaking of money, that is just my .02 worth. Wink

I'm curious to hear from others.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

Philip Banks · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:47 am Post subject:

Great reply, thank you.

The initial post and the follow up was about celebrating a personal, relevant achievement, about self-confidence, about not standing in judgement, about valuing the individual, about seeing and sharing the joy in what others may do and allowing them to do the same. The numbers are not important in the least.

My highest paid job in 2013 put $123,250 in my bank account. Well BIG DEAL PHILIP! AREN'T YOU CLEVER?

No, not really.

The best thing I did in 2013 was make this little man laugh. Guess which achievement I believe is important

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2279 Location: Atlanta

If you're booking high end work it's not on to mention what you earned. If I was an agent and I saw a talent or prospective client posting that, I wouldn't be very impressed by that lack of professionalism.

For the rest of us, the other stuff pays all about the same, and much less than in the UK, so there's nothing to celebrate on that level.

I'm thankful for great new clients that steadily over the year paid me nicely, but no jobs that stood out as a fat pay day.

I don't see much point in celebrating the best paying job. The best paying one I did in 2013 wasn't fun, didn't lead to more work, and really didn't pay that well per hour.

Just celebrate your favorite work and leave the bucks out of it. The numbers don't matter, so why ask?
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Bish · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:17 am Post subject:

I saw the thread on LI, and was going to reply, but I thought "what's the point".

There's a lot of bullsh*t and posturing over on LI... with over eleven thousand members in the Voiceover Professionals group alone, and the comments can sometimes be as valid and relevant as the average Youtube comment. The profile descriptions amuse me sometimes... "Marketing consultant and full-time voice talent" ... and everywhere there is grandiosity and exaggeration. Maybe we all round up a little... but some of these people will slap a zero on the end!

The problem is Philip... you scare them. You are demonstrably successful, will come clean with real numbers and challenge someone to do the same. You draw influences from the Theatre of The Absurd, which most of the eleven thousand there just don't understand. I think a lot of people actually feel threatened by you, and the only way they can deal is by ignoring the challenging questions and concentrating on another chorus of "Kumbaya"

Keep it up!

I just responded over there to keep the tumbleweeds company
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

Lapianoman · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:18 am Post subject:

I have 2 most-gratifying VO jobs from 2013:

1.) I started reading for Umano also. It's my first regular, paying VO job. (and yes, the pay is as meager as Scott indicated.) It's been great editing practice (lots of early morning mouth clicks) and I've had some interesting articles.

2.) I did a 6-word job for no pay. Thrilling, right? Well, that bit of animation has been shown internationally & won its creators numerous awards and accolades. I'm just chuffed to bits that I got to play a part in it. Unfortunately, they can't post the entire thing until they're done making the film festival rounds, but you can see the trailer on their blog: http://butmilkisimportant.blogspot.com/ (I play the mustachioed neighbor.)

Humble beginnings indeed, but everyone has to start somewhere. I'm just grateful I've started.
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John LaPiana
Voice User

Philip Banks · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:29 am Post subject:

No was asked to name names, to go into details, to praise an agent, to post a Youtube clip, to use it as a means of self-promotion.

No agent or manager would care two hoots about comments made by a VO or actor wanting to celebrate a career high point. I Googled a name at random and it is in the public domain that the actor concerned was paid $3,000,000 for a commercial. That actor is still with the same manager, the same agent and the deal is on-going. No one is going to get upset unless the individual who talks about something has been specifically asked to say NUFFINK!

Back on track, forgive me for repeating myself. Anyone who believes for one second having read what I wrote (both parts) that the topic is or was intended to give people a braggin' platform has missed the point entirely.

In our world 95% of people did not make a cent last year from VO work. If someone said that they did the answer machine message for their local hardware store and was paid $10 I would be the first to say "Well done you!" and I'd mean it.

Most people are genuinely frightened to step up and say who they are then ask for help, to share their hopes and dreams because they believe everyone else is great and they're nothing. They're far from nothing and I for one am far from great but we can help each other get through the day with a smile.

Philip Banks · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:33 am Post subject:

Hoorah and hoozah for you, John!

I really love, love, LOVE reading stuff like that!

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2279 Location: Atlanta

Congrats, John!

Philip, is the wage of that VO actor public domain because it was reported by someone else, or because they posted it on LinkedIn?

There's a huge difference, and I hope you can appreciate that.

I think it's really nice that you want to celebrate others' achievements and be there for them and be supportive, but as you said the dollar amounts don't matter, so I'd just leave that out. I'm just imagining what the thread would look like if, yes, thirty people posted numbers...and it doesn't sit right with me. Different strokes an' all that I suppose.

I agree with what Bish points out about feeling threatened: there's no need to feel threatened. One of the best things I've learned (thanks in part to Philip) is that we're all unique, and all have a unique voice to bring. We don't compete against each other, we just try to be our best selves and compete up to the vision and expectations of the director.

My fave two gigs of 2013:

1.) Video to raise money for young athletes with special needs in Novosibirsk.

2.) Videogames for DFAD - there's even a scene where one of my characters is told by a character done by Philip to "Shut up"! LOL.

Both Russian clients, both for little coin. Both super fun and rewarding.
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Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too!

Philip Banks · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:26 am Post subject:

Public domain nothing to do with LinkedIn. No self promotion, simply reported (not by the individual) as verifiable fact.

As for what you've achieved, Lance, wonderful stuff, truly wonderful.

Some time ago while chatting with my best friend who also happens to be a VO (although that has nothing to do with the depth of the friendship) I said.

"I am so unbelievably proud of you, really I am"

Were you to offer that person $1million in return for not hearing what I said and them never knowing it ............

Scott Pollak · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:28 am Post subject:

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2279 Location: Atlanta

I agree completely, Scott. That's one of the best things about this job - you get to work on things that you feel passionate about.

I'm not passionate about doing Car Dealer spots, but I get a kick out of them. The audio engineer in me love adding the music and sfx and subtlety cheesey voice processing. My next door neighbor works for a national Car Dealer marketing company. That's all she does. She works ten hours a day and has to grind through Atlanta traffic to boot.

That's the only thing she gets to work on - and she hates it.

I'm a luck, lucky guy.
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Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too!

bobsouer · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:47 am Post subject:

Philip,

You often start the most interesting discussions here on the VO-BB. I missed your posted on LinkedIn, but that's because I spend almost no time there every day. Smile

As for the topic at hand, a quick search of the archives here will demonstrate that I have been very candid about numbers when asked or challenged in the past. I remain as willing as ever to post specifics, but see no need in this case.

Like Lance, I am a very blessed man and I am profoundly grateful I get to do what I love and make a good living at it.
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Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
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ISDN, Source Connect, phone patch

Scott Pollak · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 am Post subject:

I guess I'm old-school. I am a baby boomer who was brought up that finances are always personal. I never even really knew what my dad earned, and my kids also don't know what I earn. But they DO know what I'm passionate about!
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

Bish · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:51 am Post subject:

I think one of the problems with LI is that people take it far too seriously. Yes, it does purport to be a B2B platform and people are (justifiably or not) concerned about what they say being seen by (prospective) clients. This means that most present their "public" face... and we know there can sometimes be an immense gap between that and reality.

Direct questions that actually solicit honest (thoughtful) replies are doomed to fail... don't look at the man behind the curtain.

That's why I like it here...
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.