VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[voice of vicki]

Hi Talents. Need your opinions: How can Talent Agents continue to represent voice talent in the face of all the Internet competition? I am meeting with my agent on Aug 18 to discuss this problem-- or shall we say, CHANGE in the industry. When I began 10 years ago, all my work came in through my agents. Now just a fraction of clients are seeking voice talent through traditional agents. I've spent this year trying to educate myself on how different VO sites operate. I've paid attention to your posts. I joined Voice123 and after 7 months I'm $40 shy of recuping my membership fee. As you know, it's A LOT more work for talent to audition and fish for clients on the Internet. I belong to 2 sites who have a limited talent pool, and the paychecks are still hard won. I got a rejection email from one site saying "we have a minimal amount of voice work and a maximum amount of voice talent chasing that work." That says it all.
So, what do I say to my agent? How can talent agents stay competitive? Can they compete with Internet cattle calls? Are they better suited for actors and models, their VO days over? I have been Non-Union, only because my state is slanted that way and it was recommended by agents. Is it a solution to join the Union or would that limit my chances even more? Look into your crystal ball about the future of the voice-over industry and I will share your thoughts with my agent. Thanks!

[Curmudgeon]

I have three agents in all the "cool" places in the country. I've dealt with agents for the better part of 25 years as one who hires talent and as a talent myself. None will go to the mat for you like YOU SHOULD. I score more work by my own efforts than waiting for an agent to get me work.

[bobsouer]

[dhouston67]

My humble two cents.

I could be entirely wrong, but I think that clients who want legitimate professionals will still go to talent agencies. If they bypass agencies and go web hunting through hundreds of "maybe" voice talents, well, caveat emptor.

If that client does find and choose a top-level talent, then they've gotten what they likely would have if they'd gone to a good agency in the first place, at roughly the same rates, except they've now done all the legwork that an agency would have done for them. To each their own.
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Great Voice. Great Choice. For Voice Talking and stuff.
http://davidhoustonvoice.com
Do That Voice! - The DHV Blog

[Frank F]

Ahhh, now you have the Sixty Million Dollar question at hand.

This is the same question which talent-agents worldwide are asking. The answer is: No one knows.

There is potential for the Agent to continue and thrive. But it will mean changes in the way tradition dictates how an Agent does his/her work. 15 to 20% of income on both the upside and downside will need to be revised and re-thought. There are many other poignant items in the traditioanl Agent/Talent relationship which will also need to be revised - but more on that another time.

The internet has potential to reach a large audience, but is, as you mentioned: a 'cattle-call' with some of the lowest paying folks looking for the great talent who will take a very low-ball price.

I believe the Internet is one source of networking/marketing. Networking into tighly gripped groups will be the future - now matter what the conduit.

You mentioned you have been with an "internet representative site" for seven months and you are still short of re-paying yourself for the fee? This doesnt sound like a good investment to me... but I could be wrong.

I believe in a unique investment discipline: "If my ROI (Return On Investment) is not such that I may re-coup the funds in 90 days - no matter the size of the investment - I won't make the investment.

Some larger matters like homes and very expensive toys - it can be as long as 36 months... but with a small investment of a couple hundred dollars - if I have not made it back in two weeks tops... it was not a good investment for me - in my opinion.

Union Representation - good idea for those who are ready and willing to make the move to become professional (non-union folks can be professional too... this is just a description which is easy to understand). A Union means clout, and with some exceptions it can be a good move for many. For others - they do not want or need it... it's your choice.

Good luck with your endeavors, when you have a definitive answer to your question, please post here on the VO-BB. I for one, would like to know the future.

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Brian in Charlotte]

The whole Voice123 and Interactivevoices (now Voices.com) has worked far better than my agents (east coast and Houston). I have been extremely fortunate to have supported a wife and two daughters from work I have gotten from auditioning off these two sites and contacting stations etc. Percentage wise, here is a good idea of what I have seen from July '05 to July '06:

-Agents: 5%
-Personal Submissions: 5%
-V123/Interactive: 90%

Please note, I do not low ball, I don't take any job that's out there and I also rarely bid at the "Client's Budget" rate...in the audition remarks I tell them "Need much more info to quote". Then, when I talk with them it is virtually always a good bit above their budget. The return clients from this have made a huge impact as well...I have found a number of really good folks that keep coming back.

BOTTOM LINE: It is my belief that in this day and age, as far as the talent side is concerned, one should market themselves and get exposure as much as possible (agent, personal marketing through submissions to stations/ production companies and ad agencies). Here's something to consider: when you Google voice-over, invariably Voice123 and Interactive come up...they are all over the place...the annual fees are cheap and in talking to clients from there and virtually all of them were very pleased with the top 5 submissions...they do say it runs the full spectrum of the guy who sounds like it's his first day and is auditioning in his garage but the there are also some very good talent (all of whom are part of this forum!!!!). Granted, it's a TON more work to market yourself but after having the priviledge of talking honestly with some clients, it appears to me that you need all guns blazing at all times because ad agencies, production companies etc. are finding they can save $$ (certainly not time) by going through the online services. So, is it the future of voiceover??? It is most definately PART of the future...a LARGE part. I will say that my network stuff comes from my agent who has long relationships with those networks...they will most likely never use an online service. BUT ,there is good work and good money to be had with online services!!

If I had my way...AGENTS ALL THE WAY but, unfortunately that is not total reality for most voice talent...for some, sure...but for most, it requires daily marketing!!

With Guns BLAZING....
_________________
Brian Haymond
www.TheVoiceofBrian.com
YouTube.com/VoiceofBrian
Twitter.com/TheVoiceofBrian

[Dan-O]

A few questions for your agent to answer:

* Is your agent marketing themselves on the internet, also? How well do they market their own site, if they have one?

* Are they on voicebank.net? Instead of using casting directors, a lot of clients are going directly to the agent because of this site.

* Do they have you listed on the "internet representative sites" ? Yes, a few agencies place their talent on those sites, as well.

All of us know the rules have changed. So, in order to compete, you have to have a new strategy.

[mcm]

Technology has made our business accessible to a larger number of people.

Technology has made audio accessible to a larger number of companies and VO is turning up in a lot of new places (e.g. self check-out lines at the supermarket: "If you have your Stop & Shop card, please scan it now"; e-learning, Flash animations & PowerPoint presentation, e-vites, talking websites, talking kiosks &c.).

Therefore lots more audio work is available. You can see by listening to demo reels at production company & ad agency websites that the quality of the VO is not always a priority, so those places are likely hiring people with whom we are not competing, and they aren't using agents because that would probably add to the price tag for them. I'm guessing the big accounts are still using casting directors and talent agents to retain a few levels of quality control, and the number that go through online talent sites is probably relatively low. This is just a guess because I have no experience as yet with big accounts and no experience (nor plans for same) with online talent sites.

[Brian in Charlotte]

The VO industry is changing, in part, because of the technology changes...for example, as MCM said, there are self check-out stands etc, they need voice talent (unless they use a computer generated voice). In-store TV ads etc., e-learning etc. With the continued increasing exposure of online casting services, they are sure to play a prominant role as the months/years pass.

So I'm clear, I'm not exactly thrilled about the online services (the insulting rates offered through postings, the sometimes complete lack of understanding that the value of a voiceover is in the use of the finished product etc.)...I'm just saying that it is evident they are hear to stay...to some extent.

So, what do we do? Face the fact that we now need to put a "splitter", if you will, on the audition inlet of our studios...no longer a single hose coming in from our agents...it is simply no longer a viable source on its own, for most talents We need to connect online services, agents, personal marketing, our own web sites etc. to the inlet. These things are all conduits of opportunity whereby we can audition and potentially win the job. With the very low prices charged for online service subscriptions...the cost of doing business is VERY low compared to most any other profession!

I might make one more observation when it comes to online services: It is virtually impossible to win work if you are not auditioning as soon as the lead comes in...if you are not doing this full time, I'm sure it does make it tough to recoup your $200 investment for a yearly subscription. I have gotten work after being the 50th demo submitted, but virtually all are within the 0-25 range.

I personally spend less than $300 a year to belong to the two most prominant online services (AGAIN...I'm not thrilled with all the junk that goes along with online service auditions etc...but I'm a realist and my income is proof enough that adding these conduits to my inlet is a NO BRAINER!!

-Connecting from every angle,
_________________
Brian Haymond
www.TheVoiceofBrian.com
YouTube.com/VoiceofBrian
Twitter.com/TheVoiceofBrian

[dhouston67]

[Brian in Charlotte]

I (among many others) have suggested to IV that they use a "counter" or otherwise indicate just how many submissions a lead has received. Their notification e-mails are sometimes well behind what's on the job board, and it's often not worth one's time (except for the practice) to jump into the pool so late in the game.[/quote]

David: I agree completely! V123 does it and sure does keep me from wasting time! Hopefully IV will implement the suggestion...it would certainly provide a needed service to the talent!!

Thanks for your input!
_________________
Brian Haymond
www.TheVoiceofBrian.com
YouTube.com/VoiceofBrian
Twitter.com/TheVoiceofBrian

[bobsouer]

[Drew]

I've been cast numerous times after being #200 and above. But generally, I won't submit an audition late in the game unless, like Bob, I find the project or budget interesting.
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Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald.

[Brian in Charlotte]

[voice of vicki]

OK, thanks to all who've weighed in so far. Let me refine my search for input.
Here's what having an agent has done for me:
1. Brought me auditions I would not get otherwise. (as mentioned)
2. Recommended me personally for the job, describing what I can bring in contrast to other talent.
3. Arranged a pro studio session.
4. Arranged all details between talent, studio and client.
5. Negotiated the best paycheck for me and collected payment.
6. Included my demo on their website.
7. Maintained a professionally encouraging relationship in a biz where you often feel isolated.
So, well worth their commision. I like agents! I don't want them to give up on representing non-union VO because clients can find it cheap on the Internet. I get your point that they are only one conduit, but I believe them to be a good one.

Here's the question: What can agents do to improve their position in the current VO foodchain? Or not lose their position completely?

In a few of your remarks, you mentioned marketing/linking with other VO sites, but here's my thinking--I'm swimming in enough giant talent pools. I like the service of someone recommending me and a few others, narrowing the choice for the client. That is a service worth preserving.

Thanks again, I'm listening.