VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[sandyg]

I'm told that the folks at this forum are true whizzes when it comes to equipment. I'm about to put that to the test. That is, if those interested are willing to put up with a very long explanation about the problem.

I'm a 71 year old voice-over talent, newly in this field. I know nothing about audio equipment. I've had problems setting up my home studio. I'm on my 3rd setup. My system consists of a Marshall MXL770 Condenser Mic, a Tascam US122 Audio/MIDI Interface, Goldwave recording software. I also have CubaseLE and Guitar Tracks Pro3 recording software.

The Tascam US122 is my 2nd unit. The first was returned because the green signal light never lit up no matter how high the gain control know was set. It was replaced with another Tascam US122. This one requires the gain control knob to be set at about 1 or 2 o'clock before the green signal diode is seen to fluctuate.

I made an acquaintance of an audio engineer on another forum and discovered that he lived fairly close to me. He came over and tried his wizardry, but he was less than happy. He put his comments into the forum that we met through and has not had responses. I've placed his comments on the Tascam Forum and received several. I'm now copying the audio engineer's comments and those responses here for your perusal and assistance, if you will.
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(FROM MY AUDIO ENGINEER)
This was an interesting one....shows how much NOT a fan i am of USB based audio stuff.....

He gets signal..and everything appreas to be working properly...except the signal he gets from the tascam is TERRIBLY low....almost not fixable.
I worked a bit with his setup, which is fine for what hes doing...and gave him some GW pointers on how to boost up the volume with minimal background noise.....anyone have any clues to why this signal is coming through so low?
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Response 1 = Maybe your USB port doesn't supply enough power? Lots of problems are solved by getting a powered USB hub. They cost very little.
The preamps in the us122 don't have huge amounts of gain, but the result shouldn't be ridiculously low.
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Response 2 = I think if you get a vocal preamp your problem will be solved.
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Response 3 = The us122 has two preamps. If they don't work properly, adding a third might help, but it's no real solution to the problem,
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Response 4 = On the laptop here, if I connect the usb up and then switch on the phantom power, the usb connection fails. So I always now set all the switches on the us-122 before I plug up the usb connector. Mind you this is a computer that refuses to power my old Soundblaster mp3+ usb device.
Another slightly odd thing is that the computer usually has a little usb 'remove this device safely' icon in the taskbar for usb devices. The tascam doesn't bring up this icon. Weird, but not a show stopper.
Does the OP know that his mic is OK? If the phantom power is getting through (and this can be measured with a volt meter), maybe the mic is faulty? What's the level like on the headphones with the Direct switch on? Do simple tests first!!!
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Response 5 = Two, hopefully final, points from me. I've just recorded some moderately quiet, but reasonable level, speech with an AKG omni condenser mic here. With the 122's mic gain at maximum, the speech was peaking at -15 dB according to the meters on my recording a. To me this is just about acceptable and dealable with, but I really would like more gain.

The second point is more general. From many years experience in real studios recording speech, I know that if you make the area around the presenter too dead acoustically they tend to speak more and more quietly. Probably this is not the case here, but it is something to be aware of - that the surroundings determine how loudly you speak.
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Response 6 = If you have a digital voltmeter, it's fairly easy to measure the phantom power at most mics. Just undo the cover of the XLR plug and measure between ground (pin 1) and either of the other pins. Here, with my AKG mic and the Tascam, I'm getting 44.1 volts which seems near enough OK. The normal nominal phantom voltage is 48, but it's common for it to drop well below this.

I know nothing about your Marshall mic, except that it specifies that the phantom voltage should be 48volts + or - 4. You must measure with the mic plugged in and drawing current from the Tascam.

A powered usb hub is the way to get a beefier power supply to the mic, and they are not too expensive, but I'd try to get the existing voltage measured first.

I have no idea which of these sort of USB audio interfaces is best. My Tascam is good value, but I would try to replace it if I found something better that I could afford. The gain is barely adequate, and the way the guitar input goes noisy when you switch phantom power on for a mic on the other channel (confirmed by someone else here) just seems like poor basic design.

PS I've got 3 other more 'domestic' usb audio interfaces here. They are all much worse than the Tascam. Two of them load all sorts of junk into the computer, so be very, very wary. For my real work I still use a couple of internal pci cards (m-audio and Echo) in the desktop machines with an external mixer. I'm also doing extended testing on a Tascam FW-1884, which works well, but has brought me into contact with all the firewire issues on PC's.
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Response 7 =So what does a USB power hub do and how does it work? Which one does anyone recommend?
I find that the line inputs volume is a little low but is workable and I have made good recordings with it. The mic input does seem even lower so thats why I use a preamp and go through the line input and everything is just fine. You also end up with 2 channels instead of one which means more input volume. Thats why I recommended that route.
Sandy, I think you are looking to do something fairly straightforward and easy. Nothing on computers is straightforward or easy. The reason there are so many issues with the Tascam 122 and USB in general is because they come in contact with a computer which screws everything up in about a million different ways. You may want to consider getting a simple digital audio workstation. These are coming down in price and complexity these days. It would allow you to record directly without going through all the nightmare of having to work with a PC. I have a Tascam 2488 that I do most of my stuff on. That may be a lot more than you need.The Tascam DP-01 may be good for you. Otherwise try my preamp trick even though teris doesnt like it. It works. I suppose it is a trick rather than a solution
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Response 8 = I think there must be something actually wrong with Sandy's setup as he says the mic level light never flashes. That's why I suggest trying to measure the '48 volts' coming out of the US-122 to power the mic.

The US-122 really ought to work OK for this. The level will be a bit low, but should be in a range that is usable.

The little usb hub that I use is a tiny Belkin 4-port device that I bought on a whim when I saw it on offer behind the counter of a newsagents for, I think, 3 pounds - about 5 dollars. It is pocket size, the input lead fits into a little flap for protection in transit, and there is a nice long lead for the wall-wart power supply. My understanding is that if the power unit isn't plugged in, the usb power from the computer is passed through to the 4 ports. When you plug the psu in, the psu provides the 5-volt power to the 4 'outgoing' ports.
With a laptop here, if I plug a Creative Soundblaster mp3+ usb adapter directly into the laptop usb, the usb shuts everything down and gives a warning on the screen. If I plug the hub into the circuit without power, the same thing happens. If I plug in the wall-wart and power the hub it all works. I wouldn't wish the Creative device on anyone, though, and my US-122 doesn't need a hub to work.

If the first of Sandy's US-122's was returned to a local dealer, I'd suggest goung back again and trying to make them demonstrate something that works. This hardware ought to just plug together and work. Later on, the software is another matter.
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NOW, IT’S ME, SANDY AGAIN…..

If anyone has taken the time to peruse the responses, I’d not only appreciate an interpretation, but a serious opinion as to what I should do. Do I keep this Tascam US122 such as it is, or do I return it in favor of something else? Obviously, not being versed in audio, I wouldn’t know what to replace the Tascam with. I’ll be open for suggestions as long as it doesn’t involve a great expenditure.

Sorry to have bored everyone and rambled on. But, it’s called desperation!!!

My sincere thanks to all,

Sandy Greenberg

[Frank F]

Sandy -

Quick note: Although the Tascam USB122 is 'not a bad' little unit - it does have some power deficiencies. Checking the Phantom Power is a good option.

Marshall mics, REQUIRE 48v - not less - not more.

I am leaning a bit toward replacing the Tascam with the Edirol UA-25 (around $200.00 + or - a few bucks) for your needs.

M-Audio and PC's do not play well together for the most part, especailly since they were bought by DigiDesign - maker of ProTools.

Echo - is interesting. On some PC's Echo cards work great - on others... well, not so great.

Are your needs such that you are intending to be "on the road" often - and that is why you chose the USB122 soundcard? Or are you intending it a a truly 'home studio" utilizing a desktop PC - which has been optimized for audio - and has no connection to the internet or does not use Norton or even worse McAfee? (Each of these programs firewalls and other 'resource killer' overhead are a no-no on an audio optimized PC.

There ARE less expensive interfaces/soundcards - however - you might/will need an outboard 'audio mixer' to supply a pre-amp and phantom power - unless you choose to buy a seperate mic-pre with Phantom Power... your choice. The mixer option is a bullkier, but gives more options on how to route audio in and out of your computer.

Another thought: purchase Adobe Audition. This might be a good thing for your needs.

Are your Echo and M-Audio cards working/workable? If so, then you might find there is an easy fix. Simply adjust through the Application Mixer Panel - the input level, gain and mic-pre levels. This takes time and experimentation to adjust for optimum results - but will be worth it in the long run.

Have fun - this is not 'work' as you may have known it before... it's fun!

Frank F
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Philip Banks]

Replace Tascam with a good on board soundcard, M audio delta is fine. Add to that a Behringer Eurorack UB802 mixer and you should be in business.

Having seen Franks' response I bow to his superior technical knowledge.

[allensco]

I say you need to definitely replace the Tascam. Like Frank said, there are many options to go with, depending on what you want to do, some more expensive than others. I no longer have a laptop and have not experienced the USB or Firewire interfaces so I can offer nothing there, but many others here have.

I can recommend the Behringer mixer, as I'm sure others here can as well. Low price and they work fine. These little mixers have built-in preamps/phantom power so you don't have to have a seperate mic preamp. That's one less thing you have to buy. For the audio interface, I use the Echo Mia/Midi PCI card.

Echo Mia/Midi card--$129 US.
Behringer UB802 mixer--$39.95 US.

[CWToo]

[bobsouer]

[Frank F]

Banksey and Bob both have great thoughts too. The M-Audio Delta series is the ONLY M-Audio product I would consider these days. (Personal Opinion) I personally have three Delta 1010 cards working in one of my main PC's.

The Behringer is a great option and priced right too.

See if you can make your Echo or other M-Audio card work. You already have them so it's not a purchase or 'go out and buy' item.

The microphone cable is something I had not thought of BUT, it can make or break how your system plays with peripheral items such as sound cards and other USB/Firewire toys. And, it's one of the most inexpensive fixes.

... and Have Fun!

Frank F

Allen/CWToo: I am not knocking the M-Audio products - I have found they "don't play well" with PC's - similar to the Edirol situation with the SIS chipsets.

Drivers are a definate item to research when buying any soundcard, make sure it plays well with YOUR computer before buying.

FF
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[sandyg]

You folks absolutely floor me!!! You're all great, and I truly appreciate your responses!

I'll answer some questions that each of you have posed and make a few added comments here.

I'm using this strictly as a home studio setup with my regular PC.

I have a CBI Microphone Cable (Low Z). I got that from my invoice. I'm not that sophisticated with audio that I'd know this automatically.

Unless I've already said this, this is my 3rd attempt at setting up a workable studio. I've exchanged several items thus far.

I started out with a Samson C01U USB mic. Every time I recorded something, there was nothing to play back. It was determined that the computer's soundcard "Soundblaster" was incompatible with my equipment. So, it was recommended by yet another person at another forum (a 30 yr veteran musician/sound person) that I return the mic and get the Behringer UB802 Mixer. At this point, I'm hazy about the exact sequence of events since I've been trying for months now to get this studio running. I remember that I needed to purchase separate cables to plug into the back of the PC and into the mixer. I feel dumb, at this point, for not recalling why this setup didn't work, but again, after putting my problem onto a forum, some forum people recommended that I trade this mixer for the Tascam US122.

I've found the "M-Audio" website, but I can't see what some of you have recommended. Please be specific, if you can.

Simply stated, I need whatever it takes to get my voice (and perhaps some bedding beneath my voice) recorded with good quality result and easy to use (and understand) and well performing equipment. Once I've got this, I'll worry about eliminating the background reverberations that make me sound as if I'm in a tin can.

What, me desparate? You bet your A--!!! I need to send out my MP3 files in response to prospective job offers listed on some international voice-over websites.

I fell like a child that's just learning how to walk. I need hands-on training to get me to where I need to be. I apologize for being such a dolt about audio, even the terminology, but with assistance from people such as yourselves, I'll get through this. I hope! That is, if you can tolerate such a novice.

Thanks once again!!

Sandy Greenberg

[Bill]

Unless I missed it you haven't told us the specs on the PC. I have an older PC that while it has USB ports, it doesn;'t like anythign USB... plug in the USB jump drive and the task bar icon comes up but you can't get to the drive thru Explorer. If I start the PC with the USB drive connected its all okay, until it goes to sleep, then USB doesn't awaken. Even the Printer... I have to turn it on and off to make sure the PC sees it. and forget the USB wireless adapter... but with everything else the PC works fine.

I dont' see an issue with the USB and the Soundblaster card, within the software you have to choose which sound device to use. I have a small Griffin iMic USB interface and it works well enough, but the onboard sound chip sounded "warmer"

specs on the PC itself might point out an issue to someone more experienced with troubleshooting.

[allensco]

Sandy,

Here's a link with all the info you need on the Echo card.
Echo Mia/Midi.
There are other audio interfaces on their website as well. Take a minute and look around.

I acquired almost ALL of my equipment from Musician's Friend.

[bobsouer]

[JeffK]

Bob said:

[CWToo]

[allensco]