VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Dayo]

[Tom Test]

Drum roll please.......

1 - Mackie 802-VLZ3 mixer preamps - $200
2 - dbx286A with all processing bypassed - $200
3 - Summit 2BA-221 tube/solid-state hybrid w Mullard NOS tube (tube blend set at 10:30 PM) - $680 plus $75 for the tube upgrade
4 - Golden Age Pre-73 (a “Neve clone”) with the output at 11 PM - $300
5 - Golden Age Pre-73 with the output at 2:30 PM and Low-Z engaged

I am a bit shocked to say that I prefer the sound of my M930 through the preamps on my Mackie 802 - and so did 3 of 6 rates so far! I'm also surprised to see that nobody preferred the vaunted GAP-73.

A few thoughts... I may not be using the GAP-73 properly. I so wish manufacturers would use standardized labels for describing what each knob or switch does. I've played around with the output a bit, but to my ears, it's either too thin or too thick. Maybe getting the "TT mod" was a bad idea. But listening to the samples at Zen Audio, it didn't seem to make much difference on spoken word (so why did I get it? Dunno).

The processing features on the dbx286A are nice, but I can always do the same sorts of things using software, and I prefer to do so. It may be helpful to compress the signal going in when I'm doing a high energy read, but that's about it. Not sure if I'll keep it for the long haul.

The Summit does give a different sound, but it still sounds lacking in clarity to me. I should try it again with the tube blend even lower (but then, what is the point of having a tube amp?). I might also try it out using a brighter tube instead of my NOS Mullard. But again, I'm not sure if this is a keeper for the ling run. I could probably sell it for $4-500 on eBay, and if I really want a tube pre, I could get a $250 ART MPA Gold and use two different tubes for variety.

I'm very happy with my Gefell M930 and the highly modded Rode NTK, so unless a client tells me I need a 416, I'm set for mics for the long term. Perhaps later this year I'll try out the Martech MSS-10, Focusrite ISA One, John Hardy M1, maybe another higher-end pre, and do another shootout. But the lesson I take from this mid-level shootout is that a preamp of less than $800-1000 may not sound any better than the pres in a humble Mackie mixer - at least for VO.
_________________
Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Bill Campbell]

Thanks for the shootout Tom.

I'm not surprised about the results. I own several transformer coupled mics and two transformer equipped pres, and I never use them. The transformer seems to slow down response time. For spoken word, quick response is a plus.
It's also why a 416 sounds good on high energy reads - small diaphragm means quick response.

The Mackie and DBX preamps are known for good quality circuits. Couple that with your excellent mic, and you have a good sound.

I can see how the transformer stuff may work well on singers, though.
_________________
www.asapaudio.com

[chuckweis]

That GAP Pre 73 is a unique bird. Mine is the new version II, and so far, I like it...but is does take experimentation. The Low Z button, input gain, and output all really affect the sound. And then I also have the output gain on my 528e that comes into play before it goes to the PC.

I've found so far that my SM7 with the GAP sounds best w/Low Z off and gain and output almost all the way up. My 416 thru the GAP sound best with input gain at 40, output at about 3:00, and Low Z engaged for a punchy sound. That said, I still think my new ISA One is smoother with the 416....sounds really nice.

All I've got to do now is grab a new condenser and try it with both.

Also think that Tom's "Tests" (ha aha), show that when the first thing in your chain is a mic as nice as the Gefell M930, the pre's matter less.

[Mike Sommer]

First when doing such a test it is best to have each sample as it's own track, this way one can compare and contrast each sample and go back and forth. Just like when you go to the optometrist "Better one or better two? ... better 3? "

Next I don't think you were driving the font end hard enough especially with that charnhill transformer. The charnhill has a lot of headroom before distortion, so you need to turn up the input gain just until you hear the transformer distort (growl). What you were doing was pretty much running it clean. Which is why I felt the GAP was just fine without the upgrade.
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[JTVG]

If you haven't yet, trying playing with the impedance button on the GAP for a different sound altogether.
_________________
Joe Szymanski
http://www.joethevoiceguy.com

[bransom]

Anybody have any thoughts on whether the ZenPro mods to the GAP are worth the extra money? There's the $99 upgrade of the transistor and the (ouch!) $250 full mod. I wondered if these made any significant change for the better to the sound of the output?
_________________
Bob Ransom
"I really need a pithy quote here."

[Mike Sommer]

All the mod does is give it a different sound. For VO I like it right out of the box.
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[Tom Test]

[Voxman]

Just going back to what Bill said;

"Buy a parametric EQ and you can dial in any sound you want. Use it as an insert with your Mackie mixer. It will have a much bigger and better impact on your "sound" than any preamp"

Lets hear others thoughts on this. Yes I too can get a great sound by using quality stock pre's on my Apogee Duet 1 and Mini-Me and shaping the sound when needed through a great EQ plugin, especially ones like Abbey Road TG Mastering plugins. These can give incredible shape to your sound, with some serious balls or smooth buttery highs. Really, for voiceovers does an external pre really give anything better than a QUALITY stock pre ......seriously.....lets hear some thoughts and experience.
Cheers

[Rob Ellis]

I can say that my U87ai didn't really shine until I ran it thru a tube pre

aka Avalon 737 or UA 610. But that's with my voice and acoustic environment.

And I don't do EQ, but do sometimes use the UA 610 compressor, though sparingly.

[Voxman]

Rob what pre were you using prior to the Avalon and UA 610

[georgethetech]

I might have missed this, but are you running the output of all of the preamps into the line in of the Mackie? If so you are using two mic preamps in your tests, and would explain why the Mackie alone is the best sounding (IMHO). The line in on the Mackie mixer and almost all compact mixers still passes its signal through the preamp circuitry.
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

[Mike Sommer]

Good catch George
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[Bish]

Wow George, that was a "slap the forehead" moment for me... and I suspect a number of others as well. I've been flitting back and forth with directly connecting to the Mackie (1202VLZ3 in my case) mic inputs, and connecting via a dbx286a into the line inputs. If I read correctly, what I'm actually comparing is either the mixer pre-amps straight, or the dbx PLUS the mixer pre-amps. For a real taste of ONLY the dbx, I guess I should be connecting it directly into one channel of my Apogee Duet interface.

I've been going over the block diagram of the 1202, and as far as I can see, the only input that totally bypasses the pre-amp stage is the Hi-Z +6db tape input. If I'm reading the block diagram correctly, by assigning tape to the main output, this bypasses everything, even the master gain amps, so it's as close to a real pass-through as I'm going to get with this particular hardware.

Or, of course, I could be totally wrong
Cheers
Peter
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.