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SkinnyJohnny
Backstage Pass
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 462
Location: Asheville, NC
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 Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | OR you can add a second door leading into the room, this will make a nice air lock; |
I did this in a studio several years ago and it worked great! Not only for keeping the noise out, but doing away with the problems that space causes.
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ballenberg
Lucky 700
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 793
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Mike--I notice that in the sketch, the asbsorber panels are individual and wrapped accordingly around the sides. Is it also possible to build the frames for the 703 and then just cover all the frames with continuous fabric, essemntially creating a fabric wall with 703 behind it? Or is that acoustically inferior, or perhaps just plain unattractive?
Also, what about fibers "leaking" through the covering? Is that a real concern? Are either of the alternate brands discussed less likely to be a problem than the 703? Is there something to put between the 703 and the covering to eliminate the problem? Is Joe's speaker cloth a solution to this?
I know, it's a lotta questions. But, you da man! |
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Hart
Assistant Asylum Chief
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 2107
Location: Foley, AL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: |
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I'll let Mike answer since he really is the man on this stuff. I didn't worry about my walls but I did wrap my cloud in muslin before putting the final fabric on the bottom (showing) side so that the exposed top was covered in fabric to help hold any loose fibers in place.
mmm french toast.
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Lizden
A Zillion
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Location: The dark recesses of my mind
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Sommer wrote: | | And I love you as much as I love Sidecar cocktails in the evning and French Toast in the morning. And I love them very much. |
Now I know what to get you when I next come to LA!!!!
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Mike Sommer
A Hundred Dozen
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 1222
Location: Boss Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ballenberg wrote: | | Mike--I notice that in the sketch, the asbsorber panels are individual and wrapped accordingly around the sides. Is it also possible to build the frames for the 703 and then just cover all the frames with continuous fabric, essemntially creating a fabric wall with 703 behind it? Or is that acoustically inferior, or perhaps just plain unattractive? |
In these designs I have several eliminates that I use all the time, so it's just matter of plugging them in and adjusting them to the space. Also realize that with design and actual build there are always differences-- how many walls in our homes are truly square and plumb?
You need to understand the dimensions of the fabric that you are using, and what it can cover, so you can get the most from it. For a 22"x48' panel I know that the actual dimension, with a 1x frame, is really 25" x 49". Add the thickness of the panel times two, and 2-inches to attach the fabric to the back. In other words you need to have your stuff together and a plan.
With fr107 fabric I know I can wrap a 4-foot wide panel, 4-inches thick with very little waste.
You can build a full frame structures to cover the walls, you will still need to have structure every 48" or 66" to attach the fabric to (Guilford Of Main fr107 is 66" wide- most burlap is 40" to 60" wide. The added 6" with the fr107 is a huge difference when it come to the waste factor.).
Now the nice thing about building individual panels is that if move, you can take them with you, with little fuss. With built-in panels you also need to consider the wall plugs. You will need to either frame out for them, or move them or a little of both.
In short do what works for you. If you build movable panels make sure you can get them in and out of the room and you can hang them in place before you cover them. HAVE A PLAN>
| Quote: | | Also, what about fibers "leaking" through the covering? Is that a real concern? |
The only problem you'll have with that, is if you use them as tackling dummies. First the insulation is glued into place, and it takes quite a bit of ruffing up to break the glass loose. But once you cover and hang them, besides an occasional vacuuming with the Hover, you'll never touch them. Though I use the one above my office desk as a pin board.
| Quote: | | Are either of the alternate brands discussed less likely to be a problem than the 703? Is there something to put between the 703 and the covering to eliminate the problem? Is Joe's speaker cloth a solution to this? |
From my dealings with "RIGID" insulation it's all constructed the same. Mineral Wool is a little different, but is the same idea. No Concerns. Though INSUL-Shield is formaldehyde free or can be ordered formaldehyde free.
I have never had any problems. There is no need for mutable layers, once it's covered and up, it's done. For panels that are held off the wall, I don't even cover the backs.
Your concerns are well taken, but unjustified. This not like the fluffy stuff used in walls and attics. You over estimate the powers of rigid insulation glass fibers.
Let me also point out that fiberglass is not a carcinogen, if it is we are already screwed. It is a mechanical irritant. When you cut and handle this material, us the proper dust mask and you'll be fine. If you use sharp knives/blades to cut rigid fiberglass you'll stir up very little dust.
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Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong. |
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ballenberg
Lucky 700
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 793
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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As previously noted: You Da Man.
Thank you, Mike. |
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Lizden
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for bumping this up, but I wanted to keep this all together!
I'm REALLY excited because I just found out from Verizon that ISDN IS AVAILABLE in the area!
TOTALLY psyched because now if we really have to move up there, I can keep my ISDN!
I'm considering getting it installed in the next few months anyway, just so it's there & ready to go. We'll see...but that fact that it's available ROCKS.
2011 is looking up!
OK....carry on. 
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imaginator
The Thirteenth Floor
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 1348
Location: raleigh, nc
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:18 am Post subject: |
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this is all fascinating, although i have no room of my own to build. and am so very impressed at mike's diagrams (of course, we all know liz is worth it).
but liz...given my own history of late-night sessions, might it be wise to just leave the bed in there?
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Lizden
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
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HA! 
The bedroom is right next door, so that's really not an issue, and the space is really small so the bed would really eat up a lot of it.
This space used be bigger, but we took a whole closet and ate up several feet to bump out the bathroom next door on the other wall to add a handicapped shower for my mom.
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Mike Sommer
A Hundred Dozen
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 1222
Location: Boss Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I wish I was near you, because this looks like one of those fun projects to work on. The room is small, but seems to have great potential.
Seeking out suppliers of the Rigid Insulation can be the biggest challenge, but with the Yellow Pages, and the internet you can find local commercial insulation suppliers that carry it or can get it. Lead times can be 2 to 3 weeks sometimes longer depending on the manufacture.
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Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong. |
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Lizden
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Location: The dark recesses of my mind
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Mike,
That makes me feel really great! (But I SO wish you were closer too!  )
I'm in no rush (at this point)...in fact I hope to take it slow & steady and do it right.
The fact that ISDN is doable has been a huge weight off my mind.
I will start the research into the rigid insulation in the new year, and will start clearing out the room to see what the real "bones" of it are.
I'll keep you all posted for sure!
Chez Liz II will rock!
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bobsouer
Frequent Flyer
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 9883
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Liz,
One thing you might check on the rigid insulation, when I needed some for my last studio revision, I was able to special order it through my local Lowe's Home Improvement store. I get the impression not all Lowe's stores are willing to go the extra mile like these guys did, but it couldn't hurt to check.
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georgethetech
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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Location: Topanga, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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At least here in Los Angeles, I can't find a supplier that gets it cheaper to me than ATSacoustics, even with the insane shipping costs of $35/box. I've done a lot of digging, but I am sticking with the Roxul from ATS. Nothing beats to-the-site delivery.
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Jen Gosnell
A Hundred Dozen
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 1290
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:29 am Post subject: |
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This is a totally awesome thread to read. I know we'll be moving to a new house within the next 6 months or so and one of the considerations is going to be that it have a room suitable for me to do VO work in. Since it won't be just a square closet full of clothes anymore, I knew there would be other considerations - and this really sheds light on the sorts of things I'll need to take into account. Thanks!
I am less worried about it now. I'm sure there'll be challenges, but at least I feel like there's someplace I can get knowledgeable feedback on such matters once I have a space that I need to figure out how to handle.
Liz, I can't wait to hear what it sounds like when it's finally all done!
Jen
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Darren Altman
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Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Posts: 551
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Fantastic drawings and plans Mike, you've excelled yourself with your knowledge this time! As you may know, we moved into a new house a couple of weeks ago and I'm currently making plans for my new voiceover studio so this information is golden. I have a builder that claims to have built sound-proofed rooms in the past (although he's not an expert in acoustics) so I'm definitely going to show him this thread.
There's a company in the UK that sells acoustic foam (with the peaks and troughs) cheaply. Mike, If I mount the 2" foam onto wooden boards to create an air-gap between the wall and the foam, will this suffice for acoustic dampening? I'll also stick some on the ceiling.
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