VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!
Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

ISDN Questions

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index -> Gear !
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe Whistler
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:56 am    Post subject: ISDN Questions Reply with quote

Greetings all!

I'm new to the group (been lurking and reading for a while, actually) and thought I'd ask to pick your collective brains...



I have a small in-home sound studio and want to look into installing an ISDN line and codec. I've had several requests/inquiries from prospective clients and am begining to think the investment may be worth it.



The problem is I know almost nothing about the real world application and use of ISDN. Further, the price for hardware solutions range in excess of a couple thousand $.



There is a software based solution called AdioTX Communicator.



My question: have any of you had any experience in using this solution for your studio ISDN links and, if so, what are your thoughts.



Thanks, and Regards,

Joe
Back to top
Joe Whistler
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:09 am    Post subject: And, another question... Reply with quote

I forgot to include this question....



What's a phone patch do and how does it work?



:)
Back to top
kgenus
Seriously Devoted


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 889
Location: Greater NYC Area

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:41 pm    Post subject: What's a phone patch... Reply with quote

A telephone patch, or digital hybrid, allows you to "patch" a telephone line to your studio. Your clients call in, listen and provide any needed direction. You'll be required to send the finished audio, unlike the ISDN conneciton, where they record it.



Kevin
_________________
Genus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:55 pm    Post subject: Phone Patch vs. ISDN Reply with quote

kgenus is correct but not complete... don't forget the cost of ISDN. Not only do you have your box (Zephyr, Digifon, Musicam, etc.), but you also have line charges which may be $ .20/minute or more.



ISDN gives one the ability to communicate with another ISDN user/studio and send or receive (record/transmit) realtime audio in good quality. While a Phone Patch offers your client the ability to "listen in" on your session without the need for any expensive equipment or line charges other than the normal rate for the call. The client cannot record your session when using a Phone Patch (well, they could but it is not even minimal broadcast quality) - that's your job. When the session is over you would finish the session with the required editing/producing and send the audio file to your client in the prescribed media format.



AudioTX is a nice piece of software. It's limitations apply to the internet capabilities which allow realtime broadcast quality via the internet. This limitation is noted as both you and your client would need purchase AudioTX to be able to communicate. The ISDN part works well.



Soon, very soon, there will be a third alternative - called "iSpeek". A VOIP service designed with Voice Over talent in mind. Unlimited outbound telephone calling to more than 20 countires, incoming virtual telephone numbers from cities in the US, Canada, UK, and possibly Japan, plus the ability to have realtime broadcast quality sessions - all via broadband internet.



A hardware phone with XLR connections for audio I/O to your mixer or a software phone will be available. Cost around $35.00/month USD, plus around $125.00 USD (one-time) for the hardware phone, and about $50.00 for the top of the line software phone.



:o How do I know this? I am devoloping the product as I write this, plus I am presently waiting on the production of the hardware phone (due in February 2005).



Frank F
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Joe Whistler
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:18 am    Post subject: ISDN/VOIP/Phone Patch Reply with quote

Frank: your VOIP venture sounds exciting...wish you best of luck in the launch and keep us posted. Does VOIP overcome latency and dropped packet problems?



I assume this solution will require the same equipment on either end? If so, it will take some time before it is widely embraced, which will leave us all dependant on conventional ISDN, for the time being.



On a different matter: Anyone have any insight on phone patch for remote sessions? I have a number of questions...

1. Does the phone patch run off a conventional phone line, or does it work off the ISDN line.

2. What equipment is needed? I've tried to search google on this, but can't find anything specific. What I do find is equipment that runs into the thousands of dollars. I hope this isn't what is needed!



Regards
Back to top
Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:54 pm    Post subject: Phone Patch Reply with quote

Yes a phone patch uses a regular telephone line. It is usable in the field, however, if you need to do a VO at a remote location - get a cheap telephone headset and put that on one ear, and your your headphones from your mixer on the other - (O.K. it's not high tech, but it works...).



There are several types of "digital telephone hybrids" or "Phone Patch" available ranging from approximately $30.00 at Radio Shack to a couple of hundred dollars from Comrex (http://www.comrex.com/products.htm)or Digital One.



With "iSpeek" there is very low latency, approximately 6ms. dropped packets are really only a problem with users of broadband cable. DSL (for the most part does not have the same limitations).



The real problem solving I am dealing with is back echo. Although I have cancellation alogrithms, I am still getting unwanted echo when in duplex. I hope to have that solved within the next few days - then doing a VO will be as easy and cheap - as talking on the phone...



Yes, it is true, both sides of the conversation will require either the software or hardware phone. However, we will be offering (at least in the beginning) a FREE version of the software, which will allow PC to PC communication via broadband with limited codec selection of the VO side. With a few dollars to spend - a person could upgrade to a version which allows all codec selection for VO but no PSTN calling either. Or for less than $50.00 buy the full version and go on a "pay as you go PSTN" (normal POTS telephone) agreement with us.



So if I had a client who needed my services and had broadband connection - I think I would purchase the middle version for them, teach them how to use it and - charge a bit extra for the first couple fo projects to cover my chump change. I believe they will spread the word once they see the benefits of VOIP VO sessions with "iSpeek". At least I hope....



Frank F
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
kitstern
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: AudioTX ISDN codec software. Reply with quote

I've just installed AudioTX and I'm waiting for my long distance to get set up so I can test it out. There are many VO talents using this software in Europe and they're very happy. And it's much less expensive than buying a hardware codec. To the best of my knowlege the client doesn't need AudioTx software as it adapts to whatever ISDN codec is receiving the signal.



The problems we've run into w/the installation mainly revolve around the US phone companies unfamiliarity w/ISDN for VO, but the customer support at AudioTX has been great. Another US talent I've been in touch with says SBC (his local phone company) seems to know what they're doing. Speaking from my experience, Qwest has been............very unhelpful.



AudioTX also has VOIP, although I don't know how this works yet.
_________________
Enjoy life, this is not a rehearsal.

http://www.kitziestern.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Joe Whistler
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got Verizon here, and it took some doing to finally speak with someone who even knew there was such a thing as ISDN. Seems to be an obscure realm in telecommunications.



Did you buy the software/ISDN card package from AudioTX? I'm probably a month or two from taking the plunge here.



Everything I've heard about AudioTX has been positive!
Back to top
kitstern
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: AudioTX ISDN codec software Reply with quote

I bought everything from AudioTX, and I think that's the best solution. My husband knows a lot about computers and we tried different setups and sound cards. It was a waste of time.



I'll let you know when I'm up and running.
_________________
Enjoy life, this is not a rehearsal.

http://www.kitziestern.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kgenus
Seriously Devoted


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 889
Location: Greater NYC Area

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting ISDN is real pain to say the least. I tried for over a month to order the circuit from Verizon and had to leave messages twice a week without any callbacks. I had some inside connections and complained to the right people, now I have ISDN, the T1 (static IP) and both bu$ine$$ line$ (one for the digital hybrid) - yes, it get$ expen$ive.



I was a programmer in another life spent a majority of my time testing IP based delivery using ATM circuits. I stayed away from the AudioTX solution because I feared the packet delivery would be a real problem. I'm sure things have improved since the time I looked at the product. Which reminds me, Frank, if you are at a point that you could discuss your product further, I would like to know more about what you're doing, in addition to what kind of reception you have had from studios and the price structure....



AudioTX - when you do get it working, please let us know the results!



KDG
_________________
Genus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13016
Location: East Jesus, Maine

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my pal, Kalle Widelius in Sweden:



Audio TX - let's talk baby! I'm ready.



The IP function is not that good, of course depending on your broadband speed.

You get a longer delay than ISDN.

And be sure to buy the hardware dongle, without it you might have to buy the software again if your compute crashes.



The only thing I haven't worked out completely yet is the talkback. But that is a mixer setting question rather than an Audio TX problem.
_________________
DBCooperVO.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Joe Whistler
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah.. the mixer. You'll want to mix in the ISDN line as well as the phone patch line, right, so you can hear the remote conversation, but not mix it into the recording chain. I suspect the mixer will need 4 busses?



What kind of mixers are you all using?
Back to top
Charlie Channel
Club 300


Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 356
Location: East Palo Alto, CA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: ISDN Questions Reply with quote

Joe Whistler wrote:


There is a software based solution called AdioTX Communicator.



My question: have any of you had any experience in using this solution for your studio ISDN links and, if so, what are your thoughts.

Joe




Hello to everyone. I'm new to the group and Kitzie turned me on to your folks with regard to this thread.



I installed AudioTX Communicator a few months ago and it's a rock solid solution. Given that hardware codec's are, essentially, simply specialized computers, I found the Communicator less expensive and easy to use. Moreover, as a newbie to the VO biz, it's given me the ability to say I'm "ISDN Enabled."



Most agree that the AudioTX Communicator should be in a separate box from the DAW. However, I run everything in one box that's dedicated to VO work. I've had no resource issues or hardware conflicts of significance. But, I'd recommend a separate box, too.



Your experience with your telco may affect the ease of implementation. In Northern California, SBC has gotten the picture right -- although it took a little digging to get to the right group. In many locales, you have the ability to choose your local carrier. If Verizon ain't working, think of changing to some other telco, e.g., SBC, MCI, etc.



My implementation went without too many headaches, although there were a couple of speed bumps along the way. FYI: U.S. ISDN switches use something designated as "SPID's" - telephone numbers with a few more digits associated with them. The ISDN card sold by AudioTX (hard to find cards in the U.S.) are easy to set up. However, the driver software doesn't have "intelligence" built into it. That means when you put in the SPID's, don't include "hyphens" or "parents" in the number string. Once I took out the dashes and parens, everthing worked fine. An inquiry about this led to the answer that SPID's are not used in Europe.



On the ISDN lines, I initially found that the circuit would sometimes not be available when I wanted it. I'd call SBC and they'd re-initialize the circuit in short order. I'm not sure why it was dropping out. My solution was to buy a terminal adapter that contained a POTS port. POTS = Plain Old Telephone Stuff. You can connect a regular telephone or FAX machine to you ISDN line and use it.



I bought a switch box and when I'm not using ISDN or when my computer is turned off, I switch to an Adtran 3110 TA that has the regular telephone attached to it. Works fine. Basically, I have an additional telephone line. When I'm ready to use ISDN for VO, I simply switch the circuit t the ISDN card. That has truly eliminated any issue of the ISDN circuit not being available whenever I want it. That's because dial tone must be constantly available. In other words, when you pick up your phone handset, you've got to have dialtone. Hard to call an ambulence if you'd have to reboot, you know! Remember that, Mr. Gates!!!



Note that most pro studios do not use Verizon, etc. because of the issue of reliability and service. There are other ISDN circuit providers, but they're really expensive (relatively speaking). My agency used EdNet because of the reliability factor, as do many studios.



I've tested the AudioTX Communicator's IP feature with another VO talent running the software and it sounded great. The latency was a bit more, but, overall, it was functional and not to terribly distracting. We both have high speed Internet connectivity.



My thoughts: I'm happy the AudioTX Communicator exists as an alternative to enable VO talent to compete for biz and deliver quality signal content from home-studios. I'm happy I made the investment. I'll be happier when I get more work that will enable me to see a nice ROI. That, however, is my problem, not AudioTX Communicator's.



Other thoughts: Lots of content is being sent via Internet using MP3's. I'd actually prefer real time streaming to the client using AudioTX or whatever. While I do MP3's to clients, too, I'd much prefer the signal being recorded on their end as the session happens. They may hear something they want corrected, rather than waiting to get a file and then hear and request a correction.



Hope this provides some info of use.
_________________
Charlie


Last edited by Charlie Channel on Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Charlie Channel
Club 300


Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 356
Location: East Palo Alto, CA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Whistler wrote:
Ah.. the mixer. You'll want to mix in the ISDN line as well as the phone patch line, right, so you can hear the remote conversation, but not mix it into the recording chain. I suspect the mixer will need 4 busses?



What kind of mixers are you all using?




I use a Digidesign 002-Rack and Pro Tools. The 002-R isn't anything more than a fancy hardware sound card, with pre-amp's and a bunch of input/output channels.



Pro Tools softrware (sold with the unit) has a "virtual" mixer in it that permits I/O signals to be routed whereever. The 002-R has a separate monitoring circuit built in. However, I use a Command 8 mixing console that has separate headphone monitoring cicruit built in, too.



Basically, I monitor only my signal going out and the signal coming in through the monitoring circuit. The monitoring circut is isolated from source origination to avoid unwanted audio or electronic coupling feedback. I run Pro Tools in the "low latency" mode.



CC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index -> Gear ! All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group