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What's considered 'national'?
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Moosevoice
Contributore Level V


Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 162
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject: What's considered 'national'? Reply with quote

I'm talking with a potential client and he says that the spots they're looking to record would air on the CBS Sports Net (not the parent network).
I gave him a national rate (TV) that's actually below the standard rate in that this could be a recurring gig.
My question here is: CBS Sports Net IS technically considered a national network, right?
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Rick Riley
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Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 743
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: What's considered 'national'? Reply with quote

Moosevoice wrote:

I gave him a national rate (TV) that's actually below the standard rate in that this could be a recurring gig.?


Just a bit of advice aside from the question you asked. "Could be..." doesn't mean it WILL be, and now you've painted yourself in a corner. IMO, a recurring gig is a "regular" client and that takes a long time to establish. On the P2P sites many will try to lowball you by saying "This could be a recurring gig". When it BECOMES a recurring gig then it might be right to give your client a "Preferred Client Rate", but now if that same client comes back to you for another spot down the road, they're going to expect the same "below standard rate".

You won't entice a client to come back by offering a lower rate. You'll entice a client to come back by your work.

My opinion (and of course everyone has one)... Your rate is your rate is your rate. Use it and adjust it if you must for what happens down the road, but don't change it for what "might" happen down the road, because "mights" rarely "do".
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Last edited by Rick Riley on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9740
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

National, as far as pricing is concerned, is not who COULD see it but who is LIKELY to see it. The Bow Fiddle Rock is in Scotland and anyone in Scotland could see it but the majority are unlikely to see it.
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Bruce
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a case where going through an agent might be helpful. A good one should have sources that guide them to a good rate quote. CBS Sports is I'm guessing a good medium sized network.

Also, as in your signature here I hope you're not promoting your affiliation with Voice123 to clients and prospects. It does not speak well towards your position in the world of network voiceover.


B
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Moosevoice
Contributore Level V


Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 162
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
as in your signature here I hope you're not promoting your affiliation with Voice123 to clients and prospects. It does not speak well towards your position in the world of network voiceover.


B


I'm not promoting my v123 affiliation but I didn't realize that I SHOULDN'T be in the first place. Why is this a no-no? Stigma?
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ConnieTerwilliger
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Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3126
Location: San Diego - serving the world

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I'm not promoting my v123 affiliation but I didn't realize that I SHOULDN'T be in the first place. Why is this a no-no? Stigma?


More than one reason. Here are 2...

1. You realize that when someone goes to your profile on V123, they are offered other voices that sound like you...

2. You want to cultivate your own personal clients, so sending them to V123 will side-track that effort.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 - Bess barks at it.
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Moosevoice
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Joined: 16 Nov 2012
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Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, no, I'm not promoting my voice123 to clients. Sorry Bess.
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Bruce
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not done a statistical analysis of our membership's comments and reactions to the P2P debate, but in my 13 years on this board (I just celebrated my anniversary) I would say that the vast majority of members feel that voices123 is considered the second most vile organization-pretending-to-be-a-voice-talent's-friend-while-actually-disrupting-and-debasing-that-very-industry-before-our-eyes while a similarish organization in Canada is the most vile organization-pretending-to-be-a-voice-talent's-friend-while-actually-disrupting-and-debasing-that-very-industry-before-our-eyes. That's all.


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Bish
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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Location: Just a little further from Hell's Kitchen than eX

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want it to become one of those threads, but second place in the "most vile" category goes to Voice Realm... some would even argue that they're a strong contender for first place.
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MBVOXX
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"National" is a widely used term...but generally, if it's National (Class A) use, it applies to the 4 big Networks - ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX.
everything else is either: wild buy-per market, cable, internet, or local market rates
CBS Sports Net broadcasts on satellite & cable, and digitally, so it would be billed at the cable or internet rate, or a combination of both, depending on how they intend to use the recording. I would be very surprised if the client doesn't already know what the rates are.
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Bob Bergen
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had lunch with a buddy of mine who is an agent here in LA. He told me there's a recent trend of non union actors submitting for representation, with a body of "national" spots that they are both proud of and think gives them clout. But they do not bring clout.

National spots close more doors than open. The conflicts that come with a national spot, even non union, prevent more work while the spot is still in cycle. Plus if it's non union the actor as well as the agent do not see subsequent residuals. So these actors aren't bringing much to the table for the agent to represent.

Non union actors feel a sense of career accomplishment with a non union national spot because of the national exposure. Their voice being heard from coast to coast. That does indeed feed the ego. And it might even come with a nice payday. But that payday will more than likely be a fraction of Class A usage. This is not a concept most pursuing vo relate to today. And it's also why it is so frustrating for the non union actor who sees so many on a daily basis take such lowball fees for large exposure gigs.
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DougVox
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starting at a rate "below the standard rate" is never a good start (from the perspective of whoever offers that rate) to a negotiation.

Offering a low rate for what "could" become a recurring gig says "If you're willing to underpay me this time, I'm willing to let you underpay more often in the future."

Promoting your V123 link to anyone means that you're sending them to a place where they'll be just 1 click away from tens of thousands of other people who do what you do. Promote your own site instead.

Sadly, there's no shortage of 'organization-pretending-to-be-a-voice-talent's-friend-while-actually-disrupting-and-debasing-that-very-industry-before-our-eyes' sites.
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Tre M.
Club 300


Joined: 01 Nov 2017
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Location: Florida, the cold part.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For someone who is considering joining the union...can someone explain the classifications of National spots?
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MBVOXX
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tre M. wrote:
For someone who is considering joining the union...can someone explain the classifications of National spots?


Class A is national network feed. On a Class A air schedule, all talent on the project gets paid a descending fee for each airplay, beginning with the session fee. That's the only "national" spot classification I've ever acknowledged. Everything else that might end up running in multiple markets across the country is considered a "wild" spot, meaning that it's placed on individual stations and talent gets paid a flat fee, plus market points, for a 13 week run. Then there is cable, which is similar to a wild spot fee but without the market points. Now, a wild spot might air in several markets, which some people like to boast as "national", as they will also boast about a cable spot, but to cover all the markets with national exposure, it is normally a spot that is run on a Class A network feed.
If a client ever says,"This is going to run nationally", you can bet money that they already know what the real rates are and are hoping you don't, and that you might offer them a flat fee, even if it's a higher fee than you'd normally charge. Because, if it really does run as a national spot and you've given them a flat non-union fee, you've saved them a lot of money.
Remember...clients always know what the costs are when they plan the project, just like a game warden always knows the answer to the question before he asks you,"how many birds did you get today?".

here is a link to all the rates that are currently active.

https://www.sagaftra.org/prod-center/contract/350/rate-sheet/document
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