VO-BB.com Forum Index VO-BB.com
Just Like a Tardis, We are Much Bigger on the Inside than the Outside Might Indicate
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Voiceover - You're doing it wrong
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB.com Forum Index -> Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bruce
Boardmeister


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 5945
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Voiceover - You're doing it wrong Reply with quote

I'm not sure that's the most enticing title for an informational program, but it looks interesting. I only know a couple of presenters. Can someone in the know vouch for this being a worthwhile event?

Voxy Ladies - You're Doing It Wrong event


Thanks,

Bruce
_________________
VO-BB Member #48 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
vkuehn
DC


Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 688
Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ceilia Siegel was the featured guest Monday night on the VO-BS program. I was impressed. She does not coach or manage your voice. She is a business methodology kind of person. Let's build you an image and then let's figure out how to market that image and maintain/improve that image.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ConnieTerwilliger
Triple G


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3032
Location: San Diego - serving the world

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be interested in hearing what Jim K plans to do with Realtime Casting. I tried it for a year or so and the expected union projects didn't present themselves. He mentioned when I left that they were re-vamping.

Celia, Jeffrey, MaryLynn, Van and Lisa are all qualified and Van is hysterical.

The others I do not know.

Nice that it is at least in part a fundraiser for a 501c3. It is a write-off in any event.

I can't even consider it though due to rehearsal schedule for a couple of shows I am doing the next few months.
_________________
Playing for a living...
www.voiceover-talent.com
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/connieterwilliger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
iannyc
Contributor IV


Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 143
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see the title/theme appealing to Bruce!! #toughlove
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bish
Triple G


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3190
Location: Just a little further from Hell's Kitchen than eX

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have met all bar one of the panelists, and I will certainly agree with Connie's comments... it is a fine group of people who are qualified to talk about the industry.

Personally, I'm actually put off by the fact that "it's for charity". I think it's a manipulative attempt to add credibility and validate the venture. I get to choose where my charity money goes... and sorry, Ryan Seacrest doesn't get it. I actually hate it when people use "charitable works" as their own promotional vehicle.

Again, as with all these things... you must ask "Why?"
Why are these eight or more getting together to present themselves to the community? Do they have stuff to up-sell? Are they engaged in a current profile-raising campaign? $45 has raised the bar on the price (what, no more $29.99!) and is no small investment. Choose wisely.

I do like the title though Laugh
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ConnieTerwilliger
Triple G


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3032
Location: San Diego - serving the world

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great points Bish. One reason to have discussion.
_________________
Playing for a living...
www.voiceover-talent.com
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/connieterwilliger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Yonie
Flight Attendant


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 833

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I like about it straight off: it's not VO people talking to VO people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9232
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

".........featuring some of the voiceover industry's most influential individuals and thought leaders"

NO THEY ARE NOT! Not anywhere near! Under no circumstances could they considered as such!

Here's the test. Take each person in the context of the above quote and, without hyperbole give one major BUSINESS, we are NOT an industry, success story. The success story should resonate with everyone, not just struggling or "I'm so excited and have no idea why" Voice Over people.

A few years ago I did an interview for an article which would appear in a national UK newspaper.

"Who have you worked for Philip?" asked the reporter.

"I do promos for CNBC"

"Mmmmyes, someone our readers will have heard of"

Make sense?

Were I asked today a quick answer would the world premier of Star Wars Rogue 1 in LA.

Now, try it with our webinar stars.

It's 20 for an upsell. Should anyone buy in, I'm sure it'll be fun but not much more. Our business has evolved for many to such an extent the there is more money to be made from Voice Over people than Voice Over work.
_________________
www.philipbanks.com

"I'll weep a little weep when I go to bed. It won't do to be dismal now." Louisa May Alcott - Little Women
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Bish
Triple G


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3190
Location: Just a little further from Hell's Kitchen than eX

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip Banks wrote:
Our business has evolved for many to such an extent the there is more money to be made from Voice Over people than Voice Over work.
I've been screaming this for a while now. It all (to some extent) revolves around the cult of personality. The business plan seems to be:
1. Be a VO for a undefined length of time (two years should do it).
2. Having a very high social media presence is more important than getting voice work.
3. Set yourself up with some branding & marketing... not real branding & marketing, just be noticeable (cute/enigmatic/whatever) and saturate the market with your presence.
4. Once you are accepted as a pillar of the industry, start selling shit. Voice coaching may be difficult... but you can always bluff your way through business coaching because there is a plethora of pre-existing source material in the self-help section. You are selling "What made me the success you think I am." so no empirical measurement needed... just present yourself as a guru.

Obviously this is an extremely simplified and (a slightly) exaggerated view of the industry. I'm not pointing any fingers... BUT, I'll bet that most readers (who are active on Faceplant and Tweeter) had at least one name in mind before they got to point 4.

Warning: This post was produced in a factory used for the production of posts containing sarcasm, irony, hyperbole, litotes, and other literary devices. There is the possibility of contamination.
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9232
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the cutest girls in the ...almost in the voice over business, is the sort of girl that if she shakes my hand I will count my fingers afterward and a tight hug means she knows you kept your wallet in your back pocket - Note use of past tense.

I was once standing behind her while she was paying her share of a restaurant bill (czech).

The Waiter gave her a friendly smile and her looked at her credit card.

"Are you carrying any I.D Mr Patel?"
_________________
www.philipbanks.com

"I'll weep a little weep when I go to bed. It won't do to be dismal now." Louisa May Alcott - Little Women
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 12496
Location: East Jesus, Maine

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lance Blair's You're Doing It Wrong
_________________
DBCooperVO.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
yarg28
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 247
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bish wrote:
You are selling "What made me the success you think I am." so no empirical measurement needed... just present yourself as a guru.


This...100 times....this.

As I've been trying to get myself over the hump and into the pile of full time earners, I've watched with great amusement at how terrible the vo community is at marketing. It seems like everyone in VO only markets and pushes their "social" presence to other VO people. Honestly, every time I see a new blog or podcast come out from somebody that is "emerging" I almost cringe; "awesome, more stuff that I've already heard, has already been said, or is flat out wrong or ignorant.."
It's really bad.

And there is a whole new breed of coaches that I've seen over the past year. People that have almost no success at all, at least relative to what I call success, are now selling coaching packages. It's preposterous.

A few months back I was on a session with Nancy Wolfson, whom I love and hold in high regard probably much to the chagrin of some but I dont care, and she, as she often does, said something that was incredibly salient. I had mentioned something about a "free webinar" with a particular coach. you know the I'll give you something free to try and sell you something type of webinar. She asked why I would want to spend an hour with that coach. I said that they seemed fairly knowledgeable and that people seemed to speak highly of them. She said, "you know why theyre coaching? CAUSE THEY ARENT BOOKING!". I challenged her a bit (which is always a great time lol) and she said, "I know that person, I know that persons agent, they arent booking. GO SPEND that hour working on what you pay me to learn!"

It made me completely reassess how I think of everyone in the industry. What "position" they hold. Their actual value vs perceived value. I'm better for it.

Maybe i'll start a podcast and a super intense VO training course about how to spot charlatans, avoid crap VO podcasts and blogs and how to stop wasting time feigning social engagement with people that dont pay your mortgage to impress people that have no value...you can trust me, I've lost hundreds of dollars trying to make a living in voiceover and I booked that one thing one time that my girlfriend in Canada saw.

gary
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9232
Location: UK Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yarg28 wrote:
how to spot charlatans,


Ask a question and listen to them not answer it. WE are brilliant at NOT doing that.

I once asked Rudy Gaskin a specific question regarding a TOP TIP he wrote on VO work. Wasn't rude, was trying to help flesh out the detail for all readers. His reply? "Well isn't it obvious?" I continued with a comment that he was unhelpful, again not rude. He and his wife/business partner blocked me from viewing their Twitter feed. Why not simply answer the question? He was given the golden opportunity to flesh out an answer and get a wow from his audience including me. There was only one reason he didn't. He couldn't.

If someone explains to me why I am wrong I don't mind because I walk away having learned something. Sadly, I seldom experience such moments.
_________________
www.philipbanks.com

"I'll weep a little weep when I go to bed. It won't do to be dismal now." Louisa May Alcott - Little Women
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Lee Gordon
A Zillion


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6124
Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rudy and Joan can be a bit thin-skinned, especially when it comes to one of their pet projects. Bish and I can attest to that.
_________________
Lee Gordon
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
David DeFranco



Joined: 17 Aug 2017
Posts: 1
Location: Just outside of Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgive me for resurrecting an aging thread about a now-past event, but this took a turn in a direction that is still very relevant for me - an honest (at least it reads that way to me) critique of the VO "edutainment" market.

I'd like to think that I could avoid the worst of would-be "personalities" without having to take Gary's super-intensive anti-charlatan training, but it leaves me wondering...

WHERE DOES ONE TURN FOR GOOD INITIAL TRAINING??
Where can a person find honest, meaningful professional instruction?
Where can someone who's eyes are not filled with stars and grandiose expectations but-does-have-a-genuine-interest-in-doing-this-work go to get realistic training, coaching, and mentoring?

I'm new to this. Heck, I'm not even qualified to say THAT yet. I haven't even really started yet. I still aspire to be new, so the topic of training and professional development is incredibly important to me. However, I'm finding it difficult, to say the least, identifying the right path to take the REAL first steps of doing this work!

There HAS to be a better way to get started than buying a bunch of gear one don't really understand, attending a few "guru" seminars and webinars, and then fumbling through a handful of $5 jobs. Right?? RIGHT??? Please?!?

I'm in my 40's, have had a couple of different "careers" and plenty of plain-old jobs. I've learned that, to be any good at anything, one should have at least a little bit of training. (Even the kid making fries* at the fast food place had to learn how to turn on the frier, right?) I have a family, a mortgage... I can't just write checks to "life coaches" who kind-of do something I would like to try, because I think it would be fun to say things into a microphone. (I do think it will be fun, but I also expect that it takes effort and isn't always easy, and doing it right means learning something about the work before you try to do the work.)

So I humbly ask you, HOW DID YOU GET STARTED - really *started*?
How would you advise a person to get started today?


Ok. Sorry for the long, rant of a first-time post.


*for our resident Brits, I believe you call them "chips". Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB.com Forum Index -> Events All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group