VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[HeatherMasters]

So I searched the forum , which of course led to me finding tons of brilliant threads and losing myself for a good half hour before remembering what I was supposed to be looking for...and then repeating the pattern.

A recent post by someone here on the forum about getting screwed by a client has got me rethinking my invoice practice. It seems common to request either partial or full payment up front, but I haven't been able to bring myself to do this yet. It just feels cold and untrusting (which perhaps is the unfortunate necessity). So far, I have been able to work with great people who promptly pay upon invoicing them, but I just wonder if I'm setting myself up to be taken advantage of?

So far, my clients have been mostly well known companies, and I figure, they'll pay because they want a good reputation out there...

I am a Pollyanna sort of person, which sometimes gets me into trouble, so I'm interested in how you folks go about these issues?

And if you do require partial or full upfront payment, how do you word it so you don't sound like a jerk?
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Heather

www.heathermastersvo.com

[Scott Pollak]

In a word, I don't. For the most part it's highly unprofessional. If you do that to most corporations they will drop you like a hot potato and go find somebody else because that's not the way corporations work. And I speak from experience, having worked inside a major telecommunications corporation for 11 years. On a few projects if the project is of a prolonged duration and large enough billing to merit it, I will require partial prepayment upfront. But for the most part it's more professional to do the job, make sure the client is satisfied, submit the invoice, and then sit back and expect the normal payment period of 30 to 60 days. We're supposed to be professionals. We need to act like it. Even the union folks don't get paid up front.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[richvoice]

I did a job for a local studio back in October of last year. It took me a few weeks to get my act together and send them an invoice (much personal turmoil happening during that time). I just got paid a couple of weeks ago, after multiple invoice emails, and a phone call.

My plan, in general, is to keep being willing to do the work and then send an invoice. For this particular client, if they ever call me back I'll tell them I'll be happy to work with them, but I'll require payment up front.

I guess my thinking is that I'll keep assuming that clients are trustworthy unless I see otherwise; as soon as I do, payment up front.
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Cheers,
Rich
http://www.richvoiceproductions.com
@RichMillerVO

[Scott Pollak]

[Scott Pollak]

[HeatherMasters]

Thank you so much for your responses. I'm so glad I asked because it's such a relief to know I'm not expected to operate that way. I just hate the idea of coming into the situation with that kind of suspicion.

Everything you both said really meshed with how I want to do business. The business side of things is such a new endeavor for me, and I still feel like such a noob operating that side. I got a wakeup call when I visited NYC and casually smiled at a man on the subway. I got the finger. When I thought to myself, "surely he misunderstood. I'll try again" and smiled again (remember, I've got that Pollyanna complex), this time brimming with cheer and sincerity, I got the double finger. I say that just to illustrate that I'm not the most perceptive when it comes to how the world works. I live in my own optimistic world, and am consistently surprised when things don't line up with that. And, while I don't want to lose who I am, I do want to learn to be smart and understand how to operate in the business world.

Thanks guys for helping me work through this, but I warn you, you've done nothing to wake me up to the cold harsh world, but rather, just reinforced my notions of good, honest people out there.

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Heather

www.heathermastersvo.com

[Lance Blair]

We just have to roll with whatever hands our clients deal us and not worry too much. Just keep up with them when they're late. I keep an invoice folder for each month and a subfolder of payments received on my desktop (and backed up to a hard drive and the cloud)! My invoice numbers are the first three letters of the clients' name (or a good abbreviation of it) and then the date of issuance, such as ABC031016. That makes it easy to track them in my files, bank accounts, PayPal. etc. I also reference that code in Email titles as well as in the message, instead of saying generically "here is the invoice".

I've had:

Clients who are always late but always pay.

Clients who are always on time but suddenly they're going out of business and they won't even return your calls.

Clients who promise to pay 30, 45, or 60 days and are good to their word.

Clients who regularly pay before they contact me...that can be trickier!

Clients who can't get their act together for over a year but still pay.

I usually get one job a year that doesn't ever pay, and just budget for that in advance. Last year was a record for clients that didn't pay (5!) but they weren't big jobs (and all non-broadcast); plus I had my best year yet so I didn't sweat it. Just keep swimming! Only when a job is dealing with hefty sums would I consider contacting collection agencies and lawyers.
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Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too!

[Yonie]

There are few asshats. There are many brain demons.

[juliaknippen]

The fellow on the subway in NYC was probably crazy. Any sane person would have smiled back at you or ignored you completely. Never stop smiling at people!
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www.juliaknippen.com
Her Voice Will Grow on You

[todd ellis]

[Philip Banks]

My invoice terms - "While you've got it I can't spend it and that is NOT a bad thing"

[Scott Pollak]

Like Todd, if it's a biggie, I'll respectfully request 50% to get started, balance due upon project completion, but that's usually for jobs of $3k or more.

I log each job as it comes in, into Excel, with a column for the date it came in, client's name, job name or type, budget.

Then as I invoice it, I add a column for the date it's invoiced and I highlight the whole line in yellow to show it's pending payment. Jobs still to be invoiced aren't highlighted at all. Once payment is received, I enter the date payment is received and highlight the entire line in green, showing it's good.

It's very easy to scan over the excel file and see the ones in yellow (invoiced out). I can look back to the ones that are starting to get a bit 'ripe' and will often then follow up with a very nice, professional query asking if payment is on its way. If we start getting past 90 days, then my messages get a bit more direct. Fortunately this is a rare occurrence. And, like Lance, I think I typically get maybe one (at most) non-payer in the course of a year. Usually they've gone belly up or are overseas.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[Mike Harrison]

Excellent thread!

Typically, how long after the 30-day period (taking into account any postal lags) before a reminder goes out?

On another note, there is a client right now who, earlier this month, asked if I would record additional material to a script originally recorded a month earlier and hold the invoice until a new job due to come in at the end of the month. I was advised not to delay invoicing, so I didn't. Here we are at the end of the month and there's been no word about that new job. Payment for the additional material is due in several days. This client (a small video company) has been considerably late paying before and his drag-on excuses are pretty lame. I'm considering whether he is one client I might do without.
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[Scott Pollak]

[Mike Harrison]

Excellent.

Thanks so much, Scott!
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.