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New mic pre on the way...
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JTVG
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Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthonyVO wrote:
I like a compressor and EQ on board.


The great thing about the Grace M103 is that you can run it in line mode and bypass the preamp. I wish the 737 had that option.
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anthonyVO
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, wait - it *does* have an onboard EQ and comp?
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JTVG
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, looks like it has everything the 737SP has, with the added benefit of line input.
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Mike Sommer
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EQ and compressor on the 737 are garbage. I don't know anyone who uses them. Which is why I never understood the appeal of it.

THe Grace M103, as a fairly clean transparent preamp, is a good way to go, and gives you the option to plug other preamps into it and use the signal processing that it has.
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JTVG
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly agree, Mike. At least about the comp. I'm tired of fiddling with the the 737 and not really getting the sound I want. Might give the Grace a try and maybe put a Pre 73 through it. Is the compressor on that more beefy when you need it to be?
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Mike Sommer
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an optical compressor, and will act more like a peak limiter. It will also sound more smooth and natural. That's all you want for VO while recording "Peak Limiting."

Use your DAW for the dynamic compressor and the contouring of sound.


Mike's HOT TIPS:

If you are doing Local TV or radio announce, where your delivering finish audio for direct to air. Then I would build a custom chain with the likes of an LA2A compressor going into a 1176 compressor. An expensive combination, but you will get a classic vocal broadcast sound, that is full and dynamic.

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captain54
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sommer wrote:

If you are doing Local TV or radio announce, where your delivering finish audio for direct to air. Then I would build a custom chain with the likes of an LA2A compressor going into a 1176 compressor. An expensive combination, but you will get a classic vocal broadcast sound, that is full and dynamic.


You know Mike, this is something I spend an awful lot of time fiddling with.
How close do you think the BF76 in ProTools is to the 1176, and can you suggest a software compressor similiar to an LA2A?

So far, my weapon of choice has been Wave RenVox, which seems to act as a comp/limiter and gives a fairly transparent full and dynamic broadcast sound. I've also strapped on a PSP Vintage Warmer with the LightComp/Limiter preset with the drive dialed down a bit for a similiar effect. Also, surprisingingly, I found the Apple Peak Limiter to be not half bad.
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Steve Knight
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, UA does sell the LA-3, and 1176 as plug-ins,..but you have to buy their DSP card whic is like $400
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Mike Sommer
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UA also sells the LA2A plug in for about $150. Plus the card (that's the only down side to it, it need the processing power) The hardware version sells for about $2500.00 as does the 1176 , so take your pick hardware software.

There are some folks out there that make clones, that are very nice and less expensive. I built my LA2A, for about $500.00


If you want to go with something that is close in sound to the UA plug ins without the card, try McDsp "Compressorbank" http://www.mcdsp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=271

I've never used it or heard it. But some trusted folks say it's very good, but not the same as the UA -- different, but good. I believe you can demo it. (I might just do that)

But there is nothing is quite like the real deal.

Lastly, if I were to start with the hardware I would get the LA2A first.
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D Voice
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Joined: 26 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: check out the Low Cut Reply with quote

Mike Sommer wrote:

The M5 is a good pre, but it has a tendency of bringing a lot of the room to the mix. So it would be advised to have a very well treated recording space.


So bearing in mind that is an issue for many of us, what are good solid (and not-too-expensive) pre's that do NOT "bring a lot of room to the mix" (relatively speaking of course)?


Last edited by D Voice on Tue May 17, 2011 7:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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anthonyVO
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sommer wrote:
The EQ and compressor on the 737 are garbage...


Mike meet Anthony. I've been using both the EQ and compressor now for quite some time. See those banners on my website (Target, CNN, and Spike?) All 737 w/ my settings on. Whatever they did after, I don't know because they all sound different. But I must say, if this is garbage, I can't wait to stop using it!

-Anthony
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Mike Sommer
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify: the compressor is on the 737 is notoriously slow and flabby, and the EQ section is not very musical it can even be niosy. This is not singularly my own opinion, but also of other respected engineers. Which is why most simply bypass these sections all together, or just simply use other gear.



If you're happy with the 737, then I'm happy for you. Of course what happens in post production is where all the real magic takes place. With a little digital pixy dust, one can take the dullest audio and breathe life into it-- I'm not saying you have dull audio, I'm just stating what can be done.

I simply believe there is often a lot of built in hype with some gear, and it's best to steep back and understand what one is getting before taking that leap.

EDIT

D Voice wrote:
So bearing in mind that is an issue for many of us, what are good solid (and not-too-expensive) pre's that do NOT "bring a lot of room to the mix" (relatively speaking of course)?


It might be best to understand that "room ambiance" is not always a bad thing, it's only bad if it sounds bad. There are some gorgeous sounding rooms because they are well balanced and bring dimension to the voice, and allow the voice to bloom.

But there is a caveat here, in VO, it is preferred these days to have a room that is caustically flat-- room ambiance can be easily added but it is impossible to be removed.

It might be best to understand why the M5 allows more of the room into the mix. The simple answer is that it is a Clean and Transparent preamp. Any preamp that is clean and transparent, will allow most everything trough its signal path untouched. Given also the fact, that it is a Class A preamp, which means the electronic signal path is extremely short, thusly less noise is added to the signal. This allows everything the be heard.

This is why as the quality of your gear improves, the noise and hiss of the gear often goes down, and thusly revealing to us more and more room outside noise. This then crates the vicious cycle of eliminating the ticking clock, or running refrigerator in the next room.

So for example, if a wanted a clean and highly detailed recording I would reach for, let's say the M5 and very clean and transparent mic. Or If I like the sound mic "X", I would uses a very clean preamp. If I want to add dimension to the sound of mic "X," then I would reach of a preamp that has more character. It is this, the layering, that adds dimension to our recordings. I look at microphones as the "meat" and preamps as the "spice." Salt and pepper maybe all that you need, but a good dry-rub can really enhance the flavor.

A more colored preamp has a better chance of masking a room, but it is not a magic bullet. The first step is to fix the room- to treat it so that your voice is a single sound source, with no echo and no room resonance.

This leads to my first mantra below.
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Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.
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anthonyVO
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The Avalon's compressor is slow and the EQ shouldn't be used for more than perhaps half or 1db correction (at best) in either direction. But it suits my reads and me needs.

Trashing (pun intended) gear is as bad as praising it if there is no reason initially given for doing so. Stating that a large group of individuals have the same opinion does nothing for the argument if there is no separation of fact and opinion. A slow and noisy EQ are fact. Stating that something is "garbage" is opinion.

Too many VO's take the word of some on this board as gospel without so much as going out and trying what is being suggested. I'd advise anyone looking in this gear section that bettering your equipment (preamp, mic, or otherwise) will serve you much less than bettering yourself and your techniques and to take the suggestions of other audio "experts" with a grain of salt; Present company included.

-Anthony
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like the same rules for "what's the best mic?" apply to pre-amps as well:

- Whatever sounds best to you in your price range is the best item for you, and

- You can only really tell by trying that component yourself.

It's like the difference between Ford, Chevy and a dozen other brands of pick-up trucks. They all work, they all do what they're supposed to do, but just one or two brands are going to feel right to you, and the others aren't as "good" to you.

B
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Mike Sommer
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Stating that something is "garbage" is opinion.

Clearly. Especially in the face of relished hype. Smile


Bruce wrote:
It looks like the same rules for "what's the best mic?" apply to pre-amps as well

Pretty much.

A good chef can all but anticipate what the outcome of a particular combination of ingredients and spices will taste like. An engineer can also predict, with some certainty, what a Microphone or preamp sounds like on a particular voice or instrument.

THis is why I love opinionated Chefs and Engineers.
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Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.
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