VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Philip Banks]

People may well attend training/coaching/classes but most will still get an F in the final exam.

Ladies and gentlemen I proudly present the Philip Banks how to succeed in voice over work masterclass.

Think differently
Behave differently.

That ladies and gentlemen was the Philip Banks how to succeed in voice over work masterclass.

Paypal $5 to banksey@talk21.com or better still the charity of your choice.

[Rob Ellis]

this assumes that one can behave to begin with

[Philip Banks]

Of course I omitted "BE INTERESTING" as that's fer the advanced students.

[jsgilbert]

In response to my post, Scott Pollak posted again. It appears below, in case anyone should wish to reference it.

I will start off and say that "snake oil selling" is not unique to voice over. I will also mention that a few years ago, the district attorney for Los Angeles county said that unprosecutable cries against actors in general range in the billions of dollars.

Scott mentions sending his daughter to beauty school to the tune of $25,000 and seems to equate this to voice over, going as far as mentioining that nobody discussed the realities of the business.

Well, despite large and powerful figures like Paul Mitchell, Vidal Sasson and a number of reality shows about hairstyling and even some on beauty, we do not have a worldwide opinion that this is a potnetial road to both fame and riches. Apparent income levels for this type of work are published. Much larger percentages of individiduals enrolling in hairstylist schools will obtain gainful employ than voice over actors. Teachers in Hairstyling and beauty school must posess numerous certifications and licenses. Additionally, those enrolled follow a prescribed curriculum, which include the necessity to work with trained stylists and work under supervision for many, many hours. There are varied levels of certification and individual specialties require individualized training by specialists who are also licensed to teach. Board certified examinations are given and this leads to employment in many cases. I believe that any studies of average salaries and actual job placement will show this to be a highly viable and reliable method for people to earn an income. Many schools offer job placement and support.

Additionally, the fees charges usually involve the student getting equipment and supplies.

The hairstyling industry may have some glamorization done via certain publications, and I am certain that there are some schools that peddle false promises, but this is still a viable method for people to expect to earn an income sufficeint to support themselves.

Despite what voice over schools may say about even if a peson doesn't get into voice over v.o. classes instill confidence, etc., this is pure rhetoric. Even someone who doesn't pursue hairstyling could still cut their hair and their families hair, which over a period of time has considerable value.

I suppose the analogy "you could get run over by a car tomorrow may be more applicable."


As far as the plopping down of $1,000 to become a professional speaker, I could go into a long diatribe on how current televangelists and motivational speakers have destroyed this country and contniue to do so. I'm not sure how it relates to anything here. You want to be a public speaker - bless you.

Read Bright Sided or one of several books that discuss this in length. A lot of smarter pople than I, think the same thing.

Now you've really insulted my intelligence by tryng to compare an industry of paupers, taught by individuals with no licensing or accredidation to a major 4 year university. You're grasping at straws here. There is 0 accountability and 0 value. I don't know anybody who hires talent who gives two craps about where or what they have studied. And as far as your son goes, the odds are there are very few things he could study in school that would lead to his getting hired after college. College placements are at an alltime low. Please expect to continue to support him for a long, long time. One can go onlione and see the types of jobs that there will be expected shortfalls in over the next 10 years or so, astronomy wasn't one of them. But then again, he has 4 years to make a mark, develop connections and perhaps in December of 21012, enough astronomers will be wiped out by the Mayan prediction that he might actually find a job when he graduates. Most of the job openings will however be doing things that didn't exoist a few years ago and many will be related to running zero cost based businesses, alternative energy, social media and social gaming, new forms of administering education, etc.

Oddly enough voice over wasn't among the list of jobs that seemed to have growth potential.

I don't make it my place to drill home to every newcomer to voice over the perils of the profession. However in an industry with very little accountability, where even the least qualified individuals can convince people who don't know any better that they can "teach them". And in a profession that is glamourized daily by the press and is so twisted in its ability or desire to portray itself accurately, I think it important that a few voices, mine being one of them, can make itself heard amid the din of those peddling courses, books, CD's, boot camps, etc. who almost always open up their discussions by asking participants if they want to learn how to make the big bucks.

At best your message might be "We don't suck as bad as some of the other guys" or "They're going to spend their money with somebody, it might as well be me."

You could make an issue regarding the fact that education in general in the United States isn't working. In Kay Hymowitz book, "Manning Up", she discusses how 54% of college grads are now women and that among the employed in the 21- 35 age group, women are now making more than their male counterparts. Changes to the way that teraching is being administered, which include less competition and les adventure books tend to favor female students. In general however, many subjects tend not to be taught, therefore absorbed very well. There have been numerous calls for teaching reform over the years. and as I've mentioned before, preliminary work that was done on agrant to deterine best case practices for integrating voice over studies into uiversity degree programs, tended to show numerous pitfalls in the way this has traditionally been taught.

While you may have thought about your response for a few minutes on the way to your local theater, I and many others have spent hundreds of hours dealing with the subject.

Further, you tend to use the word "dream" a lot, as do many others on here. I have found that when individuals are exposed to the frank truth about voice over, their dream tends to become something else quite quickly. For many it is far from a dream, but a mode of last resort and for many unemployed individuals perched on the thin edge of existence, a very scary tight rope act that is predicated upon a ubiquitous and well perpetrated lie.

Noteverybody should be looking into a career in voice over, however the perception given by nearly everyone, tends to be the complete opposite.
The dance lessons your wife enjoys are not designed to allow her to support her family by means of a dance career. It is also doubtful that were you borrowing money from aged parents or on unemployment that your wife would continue to take those lessons, no matter how much she enjoys them.

Honestly, your baseless argument isn't worth the amount of time I have spent on this rebuttal. It simply doesn't hold water.

Chalk it all up to caveat emptor if you like. Why not? It's easier that way.


Scott Pollak

[Bruce]

Wearing my moderator hat:

A reminder that our policy here is to avoid making these discussions personal.

Many thanks,

Bruce
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VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

[ccpetersen]

Bruce +1
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Charter Member: Threadjackers Local 420

[Deirdre]

Thanks, Bruce.
I've been keeping a gimlet eye on this thread, since it covers a topic that can easily teeter off the cliff of civility.
I've had requests to lock the thread because of this— but opted to let it stay put.

I thank the correspondents for their continued restraint.
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DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[Scott Pollak]

As a follow up:

I taught an 2+ hour intro class last night.
7 people attended.
Of those 7, 2 people had no business whatsoever being there.
Of the remaining 5 people, 3 were exceptional, with innate acting and reading skills and the other 2 were borderline.

Of the 7 total, only 2 requested to be contacted with further info.
One of those was one of the students who had no business being there. I sent him a polite thank you for coming and urged him to look into some acting training but told him he should not be pursuing v/o at this time.

The remaining person was one of those top 3 and I did send her more info.

The other two exceptionally talented people did NOT wish to be contacted with follow-up info, and so they weren't.

So no... SaV doesn't take in just anyone with a pulse and a checkbook.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[Deirdre]

Thank you for this, Scott.
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DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[imaginator]

my thanks as well, scott. i will amend my opinion of the group.

while i still would not make them my first recommendation for a beginner, i have to admit i may have had a distorted view of their operation.

if what you're posting comes from your own actual experience, there is really no room for "debate".
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rowell gormon
www.voices2go.com
"Mr. Warm & Friendly Voice...with Character!"
Rowell Gormon's Clogged Blog - http://voices2go.com/blog

[Diane Maggipinto]

i haven't read many of these (long!) posts but i do want to share this, from one of the latest community ed catalogs i received:

Class Title:
YOU'RE ON THE AIR (HOW TO REALLY MAKE IT IN VOICE-OVERS)
yes, spelled with a hyphen

Voice-overs (any recorded voice) are hot today. (Insert instructor name here), successful voice-over artist (2 major brand names here), will talk about the numerous opportunities, the income potential, and the all-important demo and how to have it produced. Learn about an exciting new way to get around the competition and turn voice-overs into a thriving full or part-time business! There will be an opportunity to step up to the microphone to do some practice recording and hear the results.

2 hours, $35
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sitting at #8, though not as present as I'd like to be. Hello!

www.d3voiceworks.com

[Bailey]

[ccpetersen]

There's nothing wrong wth a community college class that introduces someone to the reality of VO; this one doesn't sound like it's going to do that, but it's tough to tell the full extent of the course offering from that little writeup. But, it's an inexpensive way to find out what it's all about -- if the class really does that.

One sees all kinds of intro classes at CC's these days -- we just got a flyer for a local school offering things like "intro to creative writing" and "beginning pottery" and "learn animation" that allow people to explore something new. I see nothing wrong with it. It should become clear to an attendee whether or not one can learn to flex those writing or pottery or VO muscles, or whether or not one should focus on another avenue for either creative outlet or a new career. How else are you supposed to learn if you don't at least make an effort to find out what the topic is about?

As a professional writer, for example, I don't make it a practice to scoff at classes offering an approach to learning or beefing up creative writing. Heck, I think it's great if somebody wants to learn to write properly... we see so little of it in advertising and the media, that it's kind of refreshing.
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Charter Member: Threadjackers Local 420

[Scott Pollak]

Thank you, CC. I feel exactly the same way.

Taught another one last night at the same community college where I've now taught 3 overview classes over the past year. The students range from high school kids on up to retirees and everyone in-between. We have a blast in the class. I give them the real-world picture and don't paint any false scenarios. I explain the pros and cons, and everyone has fun recording and leaves with a better idea of what it might take to dip their toes in the waters of v/o.

MOST of the attendees will never touch it. And that's as it should be.
A couple may take some additional classes or coaching and maybe one or two might make some money doing it. But they're there to get an overview from someone who actually does this - fulltime - for a living, and that's what I give 'em.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[craigcrumpton]

I mentioned this in one of the previous threads on this topic, but I was given an opportunity to audit one of SoV's workshops in Atlanta. (It wasn't with Scott -- I think her name was Heather.)

As an introductory VO class, it was fine. I couldn't say it qualified as a genuine workshop though. I just didn't think there was enough hands-on (or voice-on, as it were) workshopping involved, and I've taken a lot of other VO workshops so I think that's a fair evaluation of the event I attended.

The follow-up from the instructor was very complimentary and matched what I have been told by other professionals who have evaluated my voice acting. And she wasn't pushy about doing the whole demo thing afterwards.

SaV also contacted me about partnering with them through my "Voice Actors in the News" blog for advertising their workshop events, but after giving it some consideration I decided that wouldn't work with my blog's focus on entertainment value. I do link them on my blogroll though.

As for recommending them for VO coaching, as others have mentioned they do have some trustworthy people connected with them. But the price still seems steep to me.

And to Bob T: You'd do yourself a disservice not attending Pat's Chicago workshop since you live so close. I believe it would be well-worth your investment. Pat permitted me to sit in on his audiobooks workshop in Atlanta recently -- I was there for about half of the 1-day session before I had to leave for an out-of-state gig. I've known Pat since the 90s and own all of his instructional products. I can't recommend him highly enough.

Bob Bergen's also doing a workshop in St. Louis in May and one in NYC in July. I've attended two of Bob's workshops and highly recommend them as well. Bob even gave me an opportunity to offer my blog readers a 10% off discount for his St. Louis workshop: http://wp.me/psK4e-15X
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