VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Bruce]

I’ve run into a wholly different philosophy of how to bill clients and pay talent with a major production company, and I was curious as to whether this is as widely practiced a method as the owner of the company proclaims.

In the 30+ years I’ve been in the biz, 99% of my work has begun with a client, an ad agency, a talent agent or a production house telling me they’ve got a project and for example “it’s two or three commercials at $250 apiece…can you record tomorrow?”, or “I’ve got a narration that pays $400…are you free next week?” (Length of commercial run is also often discussed in advance.) I usually agree to the rate, voice the session, they say they’re happy, an invoice is sent and payment received. Done. Over and out.

With the production house in question, once a talent is selected they call to book the talent, but when you ask how much they often say “the fee is off of our rate card, but we’re not sure exactly where it’s going to run or how long. We often find that out after the session.” Then, two or three weeks later you get a notification from them detailing what you’ll be paid. There is also an understanding with the clients, and they are frequently told, that if the don’t like the read or the spot won’t run, they can just notify the production house and pay the dramatically lower demo rate, and this can be two to three weeks after the session.

Now, I’ve done several demo spots in my career, but in my world you’re told this up front, it’s abundantly clear that they’re using this to try to win over a client or broach a new idea, and it may be bumped up to an aired spot some day. I’ve never been told the opposite - we’re planning on paying you full rate, but maybe we’ll not run it and then pay you less…..

Until these folks. When I quizzed the owner I was told this is the way things have always been done in their world and the owner (former voice talent) proceeded to list off a number of production houses and recording studios in the Southeastern part of the country that work this way. They all frequently figure out the exact rate after the fact and they always allow the client to back down.

Please know that I like these people, the engineers, the talent reps, the owner, and in the year I’ve been with them I’ve gotten a fair amount of work, some of it fairly high paying even at their lower than average rates. But, their billing style is quite foreign to me.

So for the poll I ask if your experience is:

Usually up front - Payment details are almost always up front

Usually after the session - Payment details are usually finalized after the fact and payment might be reduced.

A mix of the two –

I must admit I have an agent in Atlanta who doesn’t always have numbers for me up front, but those are frequently union jobs where the markets/points can take a little time to iron out....but not two weeks or more.

Thanks,

B
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VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

[Lizden]

Hey Bruce,
As my vote indicates, I have never gone into a job not knowing what the rate is.
Granted all my jobs are non-Union, so that may very well be a factor, but I always know what the rate is before I step in front of the mic.
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Liz de Nesnera O.A.V. ~ Livin' The VO Dream!
English/French Bilingual VO w/ ISDN
HireLiz.com / liz@hireliz.com

[Frank F]

I have always been an "upfront" kind of guy. Getting the business part of our business out of the way early allows me to do the job without thinking about what I am going to charge for my services.

If I choose to buy another type of service, say "plumbing", I ask the rates and the estimated time it will take to complete the job. If the plumber will not answer my questions I find another plumber who will.

Opinions may vary, but ours is a passion which is a business.

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Claire Dodin]

I voted a combination of the 2 because often when I book a job via my agents, I don't know the rate until weeks after.
But I know the rate will always be good because my agents sort it out.
It's just that with commercials in particular, they don't always know in which countries, on which channels and how long it is going to run.
I often get paid months later too, but it is always worth the wait.

When I deal directly with the clients, I always agree the rate before recording.
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www.clairedodin.com

[Eddie Eagle]

Most of mine is upfront but I have a few that I start off by doing scratch tracks for developing programs or features and depending on what kind of direction it takes with studios, mangers and agents, I may or may not get the gig. The exposure is great and I'm paid a generally good scratch rate like a union audition or better. One gig I did was narration scratch tracks for a series that featured Shaun White and many action sports guys. I didn't get to narrate the series, which ended up going to Starz Network, but got the side jobs of promos for videogames and other ancillaries.

[Mike Harrison]

Almost always up-front. Can't remember the last time it didn't go that way. HOWEVER, a number of months ago I was asked to participate in a spot but rate wasn't mentioned. So I asked. And I asked several times. What I did hear was "the boss wants to use you for a lot of upcoming projects." But when it got within minutes of the ISDN session and I still didn't have an answer, I said "With all due respect to you, your company and the client, I'll need to confirm the rate before we record. Is <figure> acceptable?" The reply was "yes, that's fine" and we did the session... but I still haven't been paid.

I don't like providing my services 'blindly.' We can't buy our groceries that way. Other professionals get paid at the time service is rendered. It's one thing that voice talent not only usually have to wait to be paid, but having to wait to find out WHAT we'll be paid just doesn't seem right. Clients who aren't completely forthcoming when asked a direct question seem to me to be trying to hide or get away with something.
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[voicy1stef]

I voted for upfront as well, then everybody knows what's on the table and there are no surprises.

If any additional elements are added to the gig (more pages etc), the rate is adjusted prior to Voiceover implementation of the changes in copy etc.

Keeps everyone happy.

Even if someone is working on my behalf - like a video producer - they'll tell the client that it will cost extra to have the VO (me) implement these copy changes and get their agreement, before he tells me to go ahead and record.
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Intuit and do it!

British-American voice artist based in England for the past umpteen years. I say, has it really been that long!

http://www.stefsvoice4u.co.uk
Podcast: Positive Affirmations and Audio Stories, on iTunes, Spotify etc.

[CarynClark]

There are a number of production houses I work with that do this - well, ok, as I'm thinking about it... two. One called me last week to schedule a session and I asked what the rate was, she couldn't tell me.... someone else handles the rates. Since they've paid reasonably in the past, I said, it's alright, I was just curious.

With this (other) house, it rarely happens that they don't use my work. Like, it's happened once, last week as a matter of fact. It was for two national spot (hmmmm... I wonder if it was the same client, actually, now that I'm thinking of it). and after 3 weeks, they finally emailed me the PO and said, sorry, they didn't use your vo b/c you were sick, so we're paying you for a single demo. I kinda shrugged, and knowing I was ill and that was a chance, just considered myself lucky to get the $60 demo fee.

However, I have to admit, I have one PO I'm still awaiting from them, and we're nearing a month since I recorded. I'm getting a little curious about that one. I've followed up with the accounting area twice now.
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Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave